Moderator: MagnificentTerrorism
Killer is Dead (Killer7 spin-off / short story)
I'm not sure how many people are aware of this. We discussed it way back when on the old forums, but there's actually a 2005 novella which was published episodically called "Killer is Dead" which served as a spin-off to Killer7. I believe it actually gained some more notoriety in recent years considering the main character from KiD, Shigeki Birkin, actually appeared in Travis Strikes Again as the game's co-protagonist.
Anyway, I recently (as in right now) wrote a whole article about it. A translation has surfaced that while incomplete (mostly just lacking polish) allowed me to go through the story.
https://www.paradisehotel51.com/sin/202 ... ort-story/
As far as I understand, the translators were harrassed by some discord mutant or another calling "dibs" leading to the project being abandoned, which is a shame.
There's also a full interview related to KiD, which has been scanned but never translated.
https://64.media.tumblr.com/ee99d1799df ... 2_1280.jpg
https://64.media.tumblr.com/6bc336b56b1 ... 2_1280.jpg
Since we got a bunch of new users, from now on I'm going to post a thread every time I publish anything on the website in order to spark some discussion. I'm mostly interested in hearing from people like [mention]cake[/mention] or [mention]GoldenRakshasa[/mention] , especially since he knows japanese and might want to clarify some points which might have been left unclear by the incomplete translation or that I may have misunderstood myself. Although obviously feel free to post whatever.
I really enjoy digging through whatever morsel of undiscovered GHM history is out there (namely this, and Blood+) because I can still feel the spark of inspiration that made me engage with these products way back then, before their catalog became mired in utter dogshit. Considering that Kurayami Dance and RBG were also quite good, I almost wish Suda would retire from making horrid videogames and just focused on writing manga and short stories LOL!
There's another short story Suda has written which is nearly unknown, called Red Girl which has never been translated or covered by anyone AFAIK. It also seems to end on a cliffhanger.
https://www.famitsu.com/serial/fable51/
Anyway, I recently (as in right now) wrote a whole article about it. A translation has surfaced that while incomplete (mostly just lacking polish) allowed me to go through the story.
https://www.paradisehotel51.com/sin/202 ... ort-story/
As far as I understand, the translators were harrassed by some discord mutant or another calling "dibs" leading to the project being abandoned, which is a shame.
There's also a full interview related to KiD, which has been scanned but never translated.
https://64.media.tumblr.com/ee99d1799df ... 2_1280.jpg
https://64.media.tumblr.com/6bc336b56b1 ... 2_1280.jpg
Since we got a bunch of new users, from now on I'm going to post a thread every time I publish anything on the website in order to spark some discussion. I'm mostly interested in hearing from people like [mention]cake[/mention] or [mention]GoldenRakshasa[/mention] , especially since he knows japanese and might want to clarify some points which might have been left unclear by the incomplete translation or that I may have misunderstood myself. Although obviously feel free to post whatever.
I really enjoy digging through whatever morsel of undiscovered GHM history is out there (namely this, and Blood+) because I can still feel the spark of inspiration that made me engage with these products way back then, before their catalog became mired in utter dogshit. Considering that Kurayami Dance and RBG were also quite good, I almost wish Suda would retire from making horrid videogames and just focused on writing manga and short stories LOL!
There's another short story Suda has written which is nearly unknown, called Red Girl which has never been translated or covered by anyone AFAIK. It also seems to end on a cliffhanger.
https://www.famitsu.com/serial/fable51/
- NewWorldOrder
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Re: Killer is Dead (Killer7 spin-off / short story)
I actually haven’t gotten around to reading the story yet, so I can’t provide much help at the moment. If there are any parts that you want me to take a look at though, let me know and I’ll give you my interpretation.
I saw the Bat man thing when I had previously skimmed through some parts, and it dawned on me that the bad girl/bad man names are obviously wordplay. Not sure if Suda would have actually wanted to call them bat girl/man in the games but I highly doubt that would get the OK.
Did the person who did that translation not have the Suda51 book? I ask because there is a final page with Suda’s story/character analysis. I would have assumed that they would have translated that too.
Here’s a rough translation of one section regarding a potential final chapter:
The Final Chapter
One of the major themes of the story is whether Birkin dies or not, so I’m currently thinking about how to add that conclusion. Did he become a Heaven Smile? Was he killed by Curtis? There are a number of fateful conclusions that I’m thinking about doing in an interesting manner. Incidentally, of the options that remain to Birkin, there aren’t any that will allow him to survive, are there? (laughs) But I think it’s interesting to predict the developments of the final chapter with that as a base.
I saw the Bat man thing when I had previously skimmed through some parts, and it dawned on me that the bad girl/bad man names are obviously wordplay. Not sure if Suda would have actually wanted to call them bat girl/man in the games but I highly doubt that would get the OK.
Did the person who did that translation not have the Suda51 book? I ask because there is a final page with Suda’s story/character analysis. I would have assumed that they would have translated that too.
Here’s a rough translation of one section regarding a potential final chapter:
The Final Chapter
One of the major themes of the story is whether Birkin dies or not, so I’m currently thinking about how to add that conclusion. Did he become a Heaven Smile? Was he killed by Curtis? There are a number of fateful conclusions that I’m thinking about doing in an interesting manner. Incidentally, of the options that remain to Birkin, there aren’t any that will allow him to survive, are there? (laughs) But I think it’s interesting to predict the developments of the final chapter with that as a base.
Re: Killer is Dead (Killer7 spin-off / short story)
Oh no worries. I was more interested in your overall impressions since you seem to actually care about this stuff, and you're able to read it in the original language. I guess if I had to ask specific questions, does the name Samayoru (サマヨル) have any implications in Japanese?GoldenRakshasa wrote: ↑Wed Jan 05, 2022 8:29 am I actually haven’t gotten around to reading the story yet, so I can’t provide much help at the moment. If there are any parts that you want me to take a look at though, let me know and I’ll give you my interpretation.
What about the Hotel name (ホテル・ドントムーブ)? It was translated as "Hotel Don't Move" by the team.
There's also some sort of pun about asking "two things" and killing in chapter 4 which I didn't really get.
バーキン:ダン・スミス 一つ聞かせてくれ
ダン:本当に一つか? 二つだったら どうなる?
バーキン:……え?
ダン:即座に殺るぞ
言葉のあやは殺(アヤ)になる。我ながらに、座布団一枚だ。
Also, did you happen to read the interview? Anything interesting in there? I wouldn't ask you for a full translation unless that's something you want to do for yourself, I'm just curious what you think.
https://64.media.tumblr.com/ee99d1799df ... 2_1280.jpg
https://64.media.tumblr.com/6bc336b56b1 ... 2_1280.jpg
The translitterations for chapter 5 and 6 actually come from that same book we both have so I'm assuming they have it. The translation was left incomplete, because of "discord drama" as far as I know so they might have wanted to translate the extras as well but just abandoned the project before they got there.Did the person who did that translation not have the Suda51 book? I ask because there is a final page with Suda’s story/character analysis. I would have assumed that they would have translated that too.
Thanks I'll add that too the article. It's gonna be easier once we have full scans for the Complete Suda51 Book too. (I'm gonna ship it to BMJ within the month alongside some other stuff.)Here’s a rough translation of one section regarding a potential final chapter:
The Final Chapter
One of the major themes of the story is whether Birkin dies or not, so I’m currently thinking about how to add that conclusion. Did he become a Heaven Smile? Was he killed by Curtis? There are a number of fateful conclusions that I’m thinking about doing in an interesting manner. Incidentally, of the options that remain to Birkin, there aren’t any that will allow him to survive, are there? (laughs) But I think it’s interesting to predict the developments of the final chapter with that as a base.
- NewWorldOrder
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Re: Killer is Dead (Killer7 spin-off / short story)
Nothing stands out regarding Samayoru. The 'yoru' could refer to night, but without any kanji I can't tell if there are any hidden meanings there.Xed51 wrote: ↑Wed Jan 05, 2022 4:18 pm Oh no worries. I was more interested in your overall impressions since you seem to actually care about this stuff, and you're able to read it in the original language. I guess if I had to ask specific questions, does the name Samayoru (サマヨル) have any implications in Japanese?
What about the Hotel name (ホテル・ドントムーブ)? It was translated as "Hotel Don't Move" by the team.
There's also some sort of pun about asking "two things" and killing in chapter 4 which I didn't really get.
バーキン:ダン・スミス 一つ聞かせてくれ
ダン:本当に一つか? 二つだったら どうなる?
バーキン:……え?
ダン:即座に殺るぞ
言葉のあやは殺(アヤ)になる。我ながらに、座布団一枚だ。
ドントムーブ is just 'don't move'. Nothing special there.
Next part was tricky for me, but I think I undertand it. Pretty hard to translate that final line properly.
バーキン:ダン・スミス 一つ聞かせてくれ
Birkin: Dan Smith, can I ask you one thing?
ダン:本当に一つか? 二つだったら どうなる?
Dan: Really just one? If it was two, what would happen?
バーキン:……え?
Birkin: Huh?
ダン:即座に殺るぞ
Dan: I'll kill you immediately/on the spot.
言葉のあやは殺(アヤ)になる。我ながらに、座布団一枚だ。
A figure of speech becomes (a figure of) death. That's a good pun, if I do say so myself.
So, what I think the joke is here is with やる (yaru). Generally, this is the verb that simply means to do (can be a little vulgar depending on the context) and is used in a wide variety of circumstances. So, 即座にやる would mean 'I'll do it immediately'. So I think in the case of their conversation, 'If you asked two things, then I'd answer immediately.' or something like that.
However, やる can also mean 'to kill' and can be written with the kanji with that meaning, so 殺る. Then, 即座に殺る becomes 'I'll kill you immediately'. The conversation is then 'If you ask two things, I'll kill you immediately.'
The final line of Birkin's thoughts, 言葉のあや(figure of speech)は殺(death)(アヤ)(figure/shape)になる
Is literally, 'The figure of speech becomes death'. With 'figure' attached to the death kanji, so maybe something more like 'The figure of speech becomes the figure of death.'
I'm not 100% sure on all that, so I could be wrong, but that's what I think it is.
Actually looking at that interview, it's acutally the exact same as the last page in the book. I may be able to get to it at some point, but not for a while. The titles of each section are roughly:Also, did you happen to read the interview? Anything interesting in there? I wouldn't ask you for a full translation unless that's something you want to do for yourself, I'm just curious what you think.
https://64.media.tumblr.com/ee99d1799df ... 2_1280.jpg
https://64.media.tumblr.com/6bc336b56b1 ... 2_1280.jpg
Story
- The expression of "Novel/short story"
- The connection between the world of Killer is Dead and the game
(Note: For some reason, in the book they seem to have written 'team' instead of 'game'. I think it's a typo)
- Paradise -Greenland-
- The Final Chapter
Characters
- Shigeki Birkin
- Dan Smith
- Curtis Blackburn
- Christopher Mills
- Claudia Decker
- Another character
Re: Killer is Dead (Killer7 spin-off / short story)
Thanks man I'm gonna quote you on that. Is there any specific way you want to be credited? Or would you prefer I don't mention your name at all? Since you're helping me out with a bunch of things at this point I might as well ask you now.
- NewWorldOrder
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Re: Killer is Dead (Killer7 spin-off / short story)
I don't really mind. If you wanna credit me just use GoldenRakshasa.
- sumiosmith
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Re: Killer is Dead (Killer7 spin-off / short story)
Hi; just read the article on the site and through this thread wanted to tell you guys I really appreciate the work you've done to keep this project going!
[mention]Xed51[/mention] I am not sure who wrote the analysis, but if it was you I really enjoyed reading through your summary and contextual notes! There were a lot of difficult sections for me to attempt to translate/understand, and hearing someone else's opinion on them was really refreshing.
Good catch on the 7:05 PM! I copied it straight over from the Famitsu post, so I'm not sure if it was a Suda/site typo or if he meant something else. I don't have my copy of the Complete Book (or scans) on hand, but I will have to check it against the reprint. :)
To hopefully answer a couple of questions, I do have the book and did a personal scan/rough translation of the final page and character analysis, but never got around to posting. There is a rough thread of the character translations on Twitter.
GoldenRakshasa's translation also sounds great to me! My understanding is that the short story was released around the same time as killer7, so Suda may have been writing based on his original concepts (multiple timelines, backstories for all of the characters, Birkin was a named character, etc.)
My personal interpretation has been that although he originally wrote Birkin to die in Killer is Dead, Suda decided to reuse him (as he does with many names and characters) in TSA, and Dan giving him the Death Ball is representative of his "second chance." I'm guessing since the Dan/Birkin subplot was largely cut or untranslated content, he edited his origins slightly and rewrote the backstory so he could be Bad Girl's father (like how he combined Eight Hearts with Johnson; LOL), which is why his killer7 and NMH timelines are not at all consistent. This is all speculation, of course, though!
Overall, I am in agreement with the rest of your analysis and am really happy to see that even a rough translation was able to get the general plot points across, even if some of the detailed nuances were lost. :D The only other thing I have to add would be that in addition to the larger motive of undermining Castiglione's influence, I think Blackburn marked Birkin for death because he was a loose end in his manufacturing operation (as a test subject and partly-transformed Samayoru/proto-Smile).
[mention]GoldenRakshasa[/mention] I have seen several of your translations around Twitter and am a big fan of your work! I really appreciate getting some additional thoughts on scenarios I struggled with like the "two things" pun and what "Samayoru" means. I can sort of understand, but am terrible at translating all the levels to Suda's meaning!
The only other thought I had while writing was that maybe Suda was just looking for something that sounded similar to "Smile" in Japanese, since they were like a prototype. The theme in killer7 of history repeating between Harman and Kun Lan, war and uneasy peace, etc. and Suda's suggestion that a future iteration might be called "Heaven Tears" suggests that as long as there will be Smiths, there will be some form of Smiles and vice versa. Maybe Samayoru is just the 70s variant?
Anyways, sorry that got long-winded, but I'm really happy to see people taking and interest in the stories and translating them!! They were a big passion project of mine for a while, but the bad-faith discussion surrounding "calling dibs" or taking down translation efforts that weren't "polished/professional" etc. was way more energy than I wanted to spend online, lol. I'd be happy to hear other thoughts/insight/translation critique and/or provide my own notes if either of you (or anyone else) are interested, as I probably will not be returning to the project anytime soon. Feel free to use my work as a basis for anything you do in the future as well! What I really wanted from the start was for this project to belong to the community, and to leverage the skills and knowledge that we all share!
Thank you so much again for all your work in documenting and analyzing Suda's more obscure works!! It'd be cool to see Red Girl translated as well someday; I've only skimmed it, but some of the aesthetics and imagery remind me a lot of the YUKI chapter from 25th Ward, which seems to have been written around the same time.
[mention]Xed51[/mention] I am not sure who wrote the analysis, but if it was you I really enjoyed reading through your summary and contextual notes! There were a lot of difficult sections for me to attempt to translate/understand, and hearing someone else's opinion on them was really refreshing.
Good catch on the 7:05 PM! I copied it straight over from the Famitsu post, so I'm not sure if it was a Suda/site typo or if he meant something else. I don't have my copy of the Complete Book (or scans) on hand, but I will have to check it against the reprint. :)
To hopefully answer a couple of questions, I do have the book and did a personal scan/rough translation of the final page and character analysis, but never got around to posting. There is a rough thread of the character translations on Twitter.
GoldenRakshasa's translation also sounds great to me! My understanding is that the short story was released around the same time as killer7, so Suda may have been writing based on his original concepts (multiple timelines, backstories for all of the characters, Birkin was a named character, etc.)
My personal interpretation has been that although he originally wrote Birkin to die in Killer is Dead, Suda decided to reuse him (as he does with many names and characters) in TSA, and Dan giving him the Death Ball is representative of his "second chance." I'm guessing since the Dan/Birkin subplot was largely cut or untranslated content, he edited his origins slightly and rewrote the backstory so he could be Bad Girl's father (like how he combined Eight Hearts with Johnson; LOL), which is why his killer7 and NMH timelines are not at all consistent. This is all speculation, of course, though!
Overall, I am in agreement with the rest of your analysis and am really happy to see that even a rough translation was able to get the general plot points across, even if some of the detailed nuances were lost. :D The only other thing I have to add would be that in addition to the larger motive of undermining Castiglione's influence, I think Blackburn marked Birkin for death because he was a loose end in his manufacturing operation (as a test subject and partly-transformed Samayoru/proto-Smile).
[mention]GoldenRakshasa[/mention] I have seen several of your translations around Twitter and am a big fan of your work! I really appreciate getting some additional thoughts on scenarios I struggled with like the "two things" pun and what "Samayoru" means. I can sort of understand, but am terrible at translating all the levels to Suda's meaning!
The only other thought I had while writing was that maybe Suda was just looking for something that sounded similar to "Smile" in Japanese, since they were like a prototype. The theme in killer7 of history repeating between Harman and Kun Lan, war and uneasy peace, etc. and Suda's suggestion that a future iteration might be called "Heaven Tears" suggests that as long as there will be Smiths, there will be some form of Smiles and vice versa. Maybe Samayoru is just the 70s variant?
Anyways, sorry that got long-winded, but I'm really happy to see people taking and interest in the stories and translating them!! They were a big passion project of mine for a while, but the bad-faith discussion surrounding "calling dibs" or taking down translation efforts that weren't "polished/professional" etc. was way more energy than I wanted to spend online, lol. I'd be happy to hear other thoughts/insight/translation critique and/or provide my own notes if either of you (or anyone else) are interested, as I probably will not be returning to the project anytime soon. Feel free to use my work as a basis for anything you do in the future as well! What I really wanted from the start was for this project to belong to the community, and to leverage the skills and knowledge that we all share!
Thank you so much again for all your work in documenting and analyzing Suda's more obscure works!! It'd be cool to see Red Girl translated as well someday; I've only skimmed it, but some of the aesthetics and imagery remind me a lot of the YUKI chapter from 25th Ward, which seems to have been written around the same time.
- Rake
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Re: Killer is Dead (Killer7 spin-off / short story)
Welcome to the hotel Sumio.
Xed is the primary author of all articles currently on the front page, though it has been a long running collaborative effort spanning back to killer7SINdicate founded by Jack in 2005.
We have a lot more translation, analysis, and dissection work in progress as well as migrating content from previous iterations of this forum.
I shall be waiting with a smile at the Front Desk.
Xed is the primary author of all articles currently on the front page, though it has been a long running collaborative effort spanning back to killer7SINdicate founded by Jack in 2005.
We have a lot more translation, analysis, and dissection work in progress as well as migrating content from previous iterations of this forum.
I shall be waiting with a smile at the Front Desk.
Re: Killer is Dead (Killer7 spin-off / short story)
"New faces huh. Time to bump I HATE WOMEN."
- Lord NINTENDO
It is such a niche interest, I think discussing things and getting other perspectives is very important.
https://www.paradisehotel51.com/sin/famitsu-interview/
I don't use twitter nor do I really know how to, so I'm sure I missed out on a ton of other translations or scans here and there. I do remember someone linking me a translation for the back cover of the first silver case soundtrack, which I have archived.
I don't know if it's just me being a 30yo boomer or if social media really is impossible to navigate. I'm trying my best to build an archive that can stand the test of time with this site. (Once I'm finished I will also back everything up on archive.org and archive.is in case I die and can't renew payments lol.)
Something always slips through though, for example the fftranslation site is off line at the moment but two of the Moonlight Syndrome short stories were not archived, so they're currently lost. It happened before though, I think she probably just lapsed on payments. Sometimes service providers are a bit bitchy in that regard (as in they will randomly decide wether or not your payments renew automatically or not. I had that problem once and the forum went offline for like ten days lol.)
I'm just going off memory though, I'll re-read that eventually (I'm currently working on Moonlight Syndrome stuff).
For example, in 15 years no translation for Moonlight Syndrome has emerged because every time someone would step in, "someone else" would promise to hack into the game and never deliver. (I am not kidding, this went on for 15 years. Someone was attempting to do a youtube translation in the past and they deleted their whole channel and all traces of themselves, probably because of a situation similar to yours.)
The moment I stepped in and forced the issue, we got a full translation in less than half a year lol. (The translation is nearly finished with only the epilogue missing. I haven't done the subtitles for chapter 9 yet though because being on vacation, I only have access to my shitty laptop where everything takes triple the amount of time than on my proper desktop computer.)
Now granted, it's by no means perfect. Neither the subtitles nor my gameplay. But me and the translator Jolovey see this as a first draft that we'll improve with a 2.0 version this winter. Unless you start putting stuff out there, nothing's ever getting finished. In fact, since you're open to it, I might just ask one of the two translators I'm working with (whenever we are finished with our current projects) if they'd like to clean up your KiD translation later down the line.
I would also like to ask you, whenever it is that we start working on the 2.0 version, if you'd like to weigh in on the Moonlight Syndrome translation to give us a third opinion, since Jolovey specifically asked for a third opinion.
A similar thing happened to me with the Moonlight Syndrome analysis. I sent it to Jolovey for review and he gave me some very interesting insight (Which I still have to add to the page but my days have been full recently. I mean obviously I'm on vacation but I don't want to spend all day hooked up to the computer lol.) That wouldn't have happened if I just waited forever to have the "community approved opinion".
https://www.paradisehotel51.com/sin/prologue/
I understand why you wouldn't want to bother with it personally. I have been smeared as a national socialist rapist (actual words used, not exaggerating) for years just for running a Suda51 fansite that was not "approved" by AIDS infested internet celebrities. It had gotten so bad that a bunch of zoomers got an italian guy to approach me to dox and kill me LOL! (Again, not exaggerating. The guy who approached me to find my home address just became my buddy instead lol.)
I eventually learned to just let it go, I don't actually give a fuck about building any sort of audience, this really is my hobby. I spent a lot of money on it between site expenses, paying for translations and buying rare shit and never made a penny of it back. (I have no fucking clue why ads run on my youtube channel because I'm not monetized at all. So if anything youtube is trying to make money off of me lol. I don't have ads on the site nor do I take donations anywhere.)
I would like for everything to be available publically as much as possible just so I can get more insight. I made the site the way I personally enjoy it, I write articles because I like doing it.
The idea of just doing something for its own sake seems to be completely lost in the modern internet where everyone is trying to build a brand, be an influencer and other retarded shit like that when obviously, the only ones who are making any money are a tiny minority. I have a real life career and real life hobbies, I don't have an ethernet cable up my ass.
There's also a Lollipop Chainsaw manga and a Liberation Maiden visual novel but I don't know that anyone really cares about getting those, or at least I'm not too interested. I THINK everything else got translated one way or another.
When it comes to non-narrative stuff, we have Area 51, the show that Suda used to run with Mask De Uh. BMJ assures me that someone already is planning to rip every single Famitsuwave DVD in existance so we're gonna get all the episodes. Then there's Airport 51 which I am pretty sure was collected in a book (which for whatever reason I have not bought yet, but I should.) and the french biography.
THere's tons of individual interviews here and there the importance of which is difficult to ascertain. I'm expecting most of them not to be worth the trouble of a full translation, but for example, the GPara and Famitsu interviews for FSR reveal so much about the game it's unreal. The moonlight syndrome interviews also provide some great insight. That's something we're just gonna have to figure out as we come across them. Is there anything else you can think of off the top of your head?
- Lord NINTENDO
Yes that was me. I'm glad you enjoyed it. Unless otherwise stated, everything on the site is written by me but as Rake said, I didn't run the older versions of the website.Hi; just read the article on the site and through this thread wanted to tell you guys I really appreciate the work you've done to keep this project going!
@Xed51 I am not sure who wrote the analysis, but if it was you I really enjoyed reading through your summary and contextual notes! There were a lot of difficult sections for me to attempt to translate/understand, and hearing someone else's opinion on them was really refreshing.
It is such a niche interest, I think discussing things and getting other perspectives is very important.
It is on both versions. I'm assuming it's a typo but it's not really something you'd notice unless you were trying to put the story in chronological order.Good catch on the 7:05 PM! I copied it straight over from the Famitsu post, so I'm not sure if it was a Suda/site typo or if he meant something else. I don't have my copy of the Complete Book (or scans) on hand, but I will have to check it against the reprint.
So is this your account or somebody else's? I remember I linked to it for the FSR Famitsu interview.To hopefully answer a couple of questions, I do have the book and did a personal scan/rough translation of the final page and character analysis, but never got around to posting. There is a rough thread of the character translations on Twitter.
https://www.paradisehotel51.com/sin/famitsu-interview/
I don't use twitter nor do I really know how to, so I'm sure I missed out on a ton of other translations or scans here and there. I do remember someone linking me a translation for the back cover of the first silver case soundtrack, which I have archived.
I don't know if it's just me being a 30yo boomer or if social media really is impossible to navigate. I'm trying my best to build an archive that can stand the test of time with this site. (Once I'm finished I will also back everything up on archive.org and archive.is in case I die and can't renew payments lol.)
Something always slips through though, for example the fftranslation site is off line at the moment but two of the Moonlight Syndrome short stories were not archived, so they're currently lost. It happened before though, I think she probably just lapsed on payments. Sometimes service providers are a bit bitchy in that regard (as in they will randomly decide wether or not your payments renew automatically or not. I had that problem once and the forum went offline for like ten days lol.)
Wasn't Antwerp backing Castiglione? Or am I misremembering, it's been a while since I read it. My understanding is that Castiglione was behind the proto-smiles, Birkin got the drugs through him originally, and Blackburn eventually took over his routes when he took over his territories. There seems to be some implication that Blackburn and Mills were state-backed, which is probably why the heaven smiles human weapons were used in the 1982 talks.Overall, I am in agreement with the rest of your analysis and am really happy to see that even a rough translation was able to get the general plot points across, even if some of the detailed nuances were lost. :D The only other thing I have to add would be that in addition to the larger motive of undermining Castiglione's influence, I think Blackburn marked Birkin for death because he was a loose end in his manufacturing operation (as a test subject and partly-transformed Samayoru/proto-Smile).
I'm just going off memory though, I'll re-read that eventually (I'm currently working on Moonlight Syndrome stuff).
"Sumairu", "Samayoru", I guess it makes sense, I was overthinking it lol.The only other thought I had while writing was that maybe Suda was just looking for something that sounded similar to "Smile" in Japanese, since they were like a prototype.
I have been working with him via email on a translation for Blood+ One Night Kiss, I don't know if you're interested at all. I think it's criminally underrated.@GoldenRakshasa I have seen several of your translations around Twitter and am a big fan of your work!
Yes that is very obnoxious and the reason nothing ever gets done. I feel the same way as you, in that it's better to put something out there in an incomplete form to attract some interest and later have it amended or corrected once more people have weighed in on it, than it is to do everything in private for personal clout and never finish fucking anything.Anyways, sorry that got long-winded, but I'm really happy to see people taking and interest in the stories and translating them!! They were a big passion project of mine for a while, but the bad-faith discussion surrounding "calling dibs" or taking down translation efforts that weren't "polished/professional" etc. was way more energy than I wanted to spend online, lol. I'd be happy to hear other thoughts/insight/translation critique and/or provide my own notes if either of you (or anyone else) are interested, as I probably will not be returning to the project anytime soon. Feel free to use my work as a basis for anything you do in the future as well! What I really wanted from the start was for this project to belong to the community, and to leverage the skills and knowledge that we all share!
For example, in 15 years no translation for Moonlight Syndrome has emerged because every time someone would step in, "someone else" would promise to hack into the game and never deliver. (I am not kidding, this went on for 15 years. Someone was attempting to do a youtube translation in the past and they deleted their whole channel and all traces of themselves, probably because of a situation similar to yours.)
The moment I stepped in and forced the issue, we got a full translation in less than half a year lol. (The translation is nearly finished with only the epilogue missing. I haven't done the subtitles for chapter 9 yet though because being on vacation, I only have access to my shitty laptop where everything takes triple the amount of time than on my proper desktop computer.)
Now granted, it's by no means perfect. Neither the subtitles nor my gameplay. But me and the translator Jolovey see this as a first draft that we'll improve with a 2.0 version this winter. Unless you start putting stuff out there, nothing's ever getting finished. In fact, since you're open to it, I might just ask one of the two translators I'm working with (whenever we are finished with our current projects) if they'd like to clean up your KiD translation later down the line.
I would also like to ask you, whenever it is that we start working on the 2.0 version, if you'd like to weigh in on the Moonlight Syndrome translation to give us a third opinion, since Jolovey specifically asked for a third opinion.
A similar thing happened to me with the Moonlight Syndrome analysis. I sent it to Jolovey for review and he gave me some very interesting insight (Which I still have to add to the page but my days have been full recently. I mean obviously I'm on vacation but I don't want to spend all day hooked up to the computer lol.) That wouldn't have happened if I just waited forever to have the "community approved opinion".
https://www.paradisehotel51.com/sin/prologue/
I did see that, and there is one thing I could probably offer some help with, to do with the alternate spellings of Hinashiro (雛城 and 雛代). Twilight Syndrome uses the former spelling, however in Rumour 5 (the first chapter of Investigation), you learn that the town used to use the 雛代 spelling, as it does in Moonlight Syndrome. The name's literal meaning is "Hina Substitute" with 'Hina' referring to Hina Dolls that are used in (among other things) the Japanese ritual of Hina-nagashi. Hinashiro got its name for being an area down-river where numerous 'Hina Substitutes' would arrive. Hinashiro was named after this ritual, but you later find out that at some point the practice changed from sending paper dolls down the river, to throwing young girls in as a ritual sacrifice to protect the town (hence, the 'Hina Substitutes' could also refer to humans). The practice was continued until at least the 60s, and Rumour 5 revolves around a late instance of this practice. At some point the spelling of Hinashiro was changed from 雛代 to 雛城, I'd assume to disassociate the town from its dark ritualistic past. It's quite ironic that Moonlight Syndrome does the complete opposite of 'killing the past' by restoring Hinashiro's old name and identity.
Now that's some fantastic insight that I never got anywhere else and wouldn't have happened unless people like us actually put stuff out there.The kanji used in both is the same, (Hinashiro=雛代, Sumio's Substitue/Sumio no Kawari=スミオの代わり, later on Mika is also referred to as Kyoko no Kawari/キョウコの代わり), but both it and the word Kawari / 代わり are very commonly used in Japanese, so I wouldn't see the usage in MS as any intentional callback to TS. In my experience, I've never seen either the kanji 代 or the word 代わり having any "puppet" connotation, however it can refer to a proxy. There is the word Ayatsuri / 操り , which would be the word you would use to describe someone or something being manipulated like a puppet by something/someone behind the scenes, but it doesn't really have the 'substitute meaning'.
I understand why you wouldn't want to bother with it personally. I have been smeared as a national socialist rapist (actual words used, not exaggerating) for years just for running a Suda51 fansite that was not "approved" by AIDS infested internet celebrities. It had gotten so bad that a bunch of zoomers got an italian guy to approach me to dox and kill me LOL! (Again, not exaggerating. The guy who approached me to find my home address just became my buddy instead lol.)
I eventually learned to just let it go, I don't actually give a fuck about building any sort of audience, this really is my hobby. I spent a lot of money on it between site expenses, paying for translations and buying rare shit and never made a penny of it back. (I have no fucking clue why ads run on my youtube channel because I'm not monetized at all. So if anything youtube is trying to make money off of me lol. I don't have ads on the site nor do I take donations anywhere.)
I would like for everything to be available publically as much as possible just so I can get more insight. I made the site the way I personally enjoy it, I write articles because I like doing it.
The idea of just doing something for its own sake seems to be completely lost in the modern internet where everyone is trying to build a brand, be an influencer and other retarded shit like that when obviously, the only ones who are making any money are a tiny minority. I have a real life career and real life hobbies, I don't have an ethernet cable up my ass.
I keep forgetting about akai onna, thanks for reminding me. Other than that, in terms of narrative stuff that needs to be translated we have Fire Pro special, the old silver case website (might as well be in the game for how important it is to the narrative lol) and the killer is dead (not the short story) original draft. Your KiD translation and the no more heroes short story translation need to be touched up, and Moonlight Syndrome and ONK are getting done, although ONK is gonna take some time because GoldenRakshasa has got like three jobs.Thank you so much again for all your work in documenting and analyzing Suda's more obscure works!! It'd be cool to see Red Girl translated as well someday; I've only skimmed it, but some of the aesthetics and imagery remind me a lot of the YUKI chapter from 25th Ward, which seems to have been written around the same time.
There's also a Lollipop Chainsaw manga and a Liberation Maiden visual novel but I don't know that anyone really cares about getting those, or at least I'm not too interested. I THINK everything else got translated one way or another.
When it comes to non-narrative stuff, we have Area 51, the show that Suda used to run with Mask De Uh. BMJ assures me that someone already is planning to rip every single Famitsuwave DVD in existance so we're gonna get all the episodes. Then there's Airport 51 which I am pretty sure was collected in a book (which for whatever reason I have not bought yet, but I should.) and the french biography.
THere's tons of individual interviews here and there the importance of which is difficult to ascertain. I'm expecting most of them not to be worth the trouble of a full translation, but for example, the GPara and Famitsu interviews for FSR reveal so much about the game it's unreal. The moonlight syndrome interviews also provide some great insight. That's something we're just gonna have to figure out as we come across them. Is there anything else you can think of off the top of your head?
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Re: Killer is Dead (Killer7 spin-off / short story)
I appreciate the kind words, but I don't think my stuff is all that great. I still have a long way to go with Japanese and my understanding of its nuances. Even my English needs work despite being a native speaker.sumiosmith wrote: @GoldenRakshasa I have seen several of your translations around Twitter and am a big fan of your work! I really appreciate getting some additional thoughts on scenarios I struggled with like the "two things" pun and what "Samayoru" means. I can sort of understand, but am terrible at translating all the levels to Suda's meaning!
I don't really participate much in fan communities, but I think that people should be able to share whatever they like and that criticism should be a welcome thing that leads to improvement. And while there can certainly be incorrect translations, that doesn't mean that there is only one correct way. Everyone will translate a piece of text differently and just because a 'better' translation may exist, it doesn't mean that other translations lack value.sumiosmith wrote:Anyways, sorry that got long-winded, but I'm really happy to see people taking and interest in the stories and translating them!! They were a big passion project of mine for a while, but the bad-faith discussion surrounding "calling dibs" or taking down translation efforts that weren't "polished/professional" etc. was way more energy than I wanted to spend online, lol. I'd be happy to hear other thoughts/insight/translation critique and/or provide my own notes if either of you (or anyone else) are interested, as I probably will not be returning to the project anytime soon. Feel free to use my work as a basis for anything you do in the future as well! What I really wanted from the start was for this project to belong to the community, and to leverage the skills and knowledge that we all share!
I've learned to never take quality for granted whether it's fan translations or professional stuff. The Kurayami Dance translation is something that I have seen nothing but praise for (even the manga artist himself), but while the English is well written, it has a lot of issues.
[mention]Xed51[/mention]
I pointed this out a while back, but I didn't have actual examples. At one point I went through and listed the ones I remembered:
(Page numbers from the translation's pdf)
ch1 - pg 15 At the top of the page there are two speech bubbles that point back to the previous page and roughly say "Let's pray, Wataru." and "Right." I'm not sure why the translator changed them to unrelated dialogue.
pg18 The note from Wataru's mother says that Wataru is late in the translation. I believe this is an error. The Japanese is 今日は遅番です which is very literally "late shift today." Thus, my understanding is that his mother is working a night shift and that's why she's not there/left him dinner. I think a similiar error is present in all the notes she leaves where she is saying that she'll be late/early, while the translations says that Wataru will be late/early.
I think this one is pretty important as the whole idea is that his mom is never home. She's gone when he gets back and she's already left by the time he wakes up in the morning.
pg 25 The name of Wataru's friend. The translation calls him Kenjin, but I think it should be Kento. Now, I understand that it can be hard to find the right reading for Japanese names, but 健人 is generally Kento and I can't find any instances of it being Kenjin on Japanese name websites. I don't think the reading is actually given anywhere though.
ch7 - pg 20 There's a gundam 00 reference here that is kinda right but also wrong. She says her type (as in her preferred type of man not newtype) is Lockon Stratos. And then clarifies that she's talking about Neil which makes sense if you've seen the show. Regardless of if you're familiar with gundam 00, a quick google search should have cleared it up, but instead the translation says that she "calls him Neil." The next line simply means something along the lines of "pleased to meet you" yet is replaced by something saying "it isn't until later in the show," which is kind of backwards anyway. I find this weird because it feels like the translator kind of knows the reference but also doesn't.
This is the kind of thing that people might not care about, but gundam has always been a big part of Suda's works, so I personally think it matters.
ch16 - pg28 The text in the background saying "I wanna go home!" is an error. He says "Hurry and come home" or "come home quickly." He's crying for his mother to come back.
pg29 "Is there anything to eat" "I made your favourite dish" should be along the lines of "is it okay to eat/can I eat" "Eat as much as you want."
While some of these are admittedly minor, they show that in many instances the translator was misunderstanding the Japanese. Though I haven't read the whole translation, I imagine there are many more errors in it.
My notes actually ended up getting passed on to the actual translator who told me that he had been planning a ver2 of Kurayami Dance but hadn't gotten around to it. I'm not sure if it will ever happen, but I imagine that he'd probably do a much better job the second time around.
I bought Liberation Maiden Sin when I was in Japan, but I haven't played it. I had always thought that Suda was involved with writing it, but the more I think about it, that's probably not the case. It's never mentioned in any Grasshopper or Suda books at all, so I guess it was really just a case of MAGES writing their own visual novel that just happened to be based on Liberation Maiden. Heck, the only mention of grasshopper on the box is a tiny 2012 Level-5/Grasshopper copyright.Xed51 wrote:There's also a Lollipop Chainsaw manga and a Liberation Maiden visual novel but I don't know that anyone really cares about getting those, or at least I'm not too interested