Fighting games could've easily been as expansive as the FPS (First Person Shooter) genre and we did see the beginning signs of that with the likes of Bushido Blade, Shenmue 1 & 2, Tobal 2, Ergheiz God Bless the Ring,Shao Lin, Smash Bros (default ruleset from Nintendo.), Urban Reign, etc.
(Strangely most of these fighters are Square Enix games.)
We could've easily had fighting games that were the fighting game equivalent of Deus Ex, Half-life or System Shock, games which are treated as full blown interactive experiences rather than just as quarter munchers which is what the fucking genre still is, with even Mortal Kombat following suit because fighting gamers refuse to move on from the fucking early 90s, AYYY LMAO!
I'm more of a competitive shooter these days, but I still have enough experinece within this genre to talk about it.I honestly can't get hype over any non-Smash fighter these days though. Samurai Shodown is the best looking fighter I've seen in years but i have no intention of buying it since it's just the same ol early 90s bullshit that fight game fans refuse to grow out of.
Dead or Alive 3-6 have shown a way that fighters can modernize through it's huge arenas & combat animations & counter systems which resemble a live-action kung fu flick , but the actual fight game audience doesn't care about it coz they're primarily stuck in their ancient cave man ways, still playing Street Fighter 2 nearly 3 decades after it released. Move the fuck on, DAAMMMN!
The irony is that most of the FGC actually do want to see those types of systems implemented in a fighting game, but they'll only ever accept it, if it's implemented it in a Street Fighter game.
Most people look at Donkey Kong (Arcade) players weird, coz they're not playing the more advanced Donkey Kong Country. In Fighting games, they look at you weird if you'd rather play a fully interactive 3d fighter like Bloody Roar, simply coz it's not 'tourney-worthy'. I'm like who gives a fuck? 'Tourney-worthy' is just a euphenism for "It's not like Street Fighter 2, REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!"
Tekken is like the only 3d fighter that got away from the StreetFighter influence mainly due to the Korean audience who played Tekken so much, that they actually proved it's a far deeper mechanically-sound fighter than Street Fighter ever was. I actually prefer Street Fighter though, precisely coz it's easier to understand. At the same time, I'm sick & tired of every fighting playing like Street Fighter. Galaga eventually turned into Doom 2016 or Doom Eternal, where our mothafucking Doom Eternal in the world of Fighting games? In Fighting games, we're still fucking playing Galaga coz they refuse to move on.
Even Smash Bro's self imposed competitive ruleset is just badly imitating Street Fighter 2's Chun Li coz apparently ,Chun Li & Blanka are prolly the only two characters that Smash players know how to use, :lol: :lol: :lol:
Anyway I'll start it off with Smash and why Competitive Smash Bros is retarded. I love Smash, Ultimate is a 10 out of 10 game, but I hate the community.
These two comments says all that needs to be said.
She almost ruined the lifes of the players who picked her"
This makes for a neat summary but i hate it cause it deflects responsibility of smash's infamously toxic competitive community.
That right there is the same basic thought that all of us Fight game fans have had in regards to Smash bros. I'm a former fight game fan, I think I've fully transitioned over to FPS, mainly coz it's easier on my controller. When you play fight games for real, you run the real risk of breaking your controller just due to how much stress you put it through.MaX Triumphsilentcalling
2 days ago
Again I say: games that weren't designed to be played competitively, shouldn't be played competitively. Want a competitive fighting game? Tekken, Street Fighter, Soul Calibur, DoA.
Smash has been, is, and will always be, a party fighting game. Not a competitive. Otherwise what is the point of having items, moving maps, and final smashes? They aren't tournament legal, and they're core functions to the game.
MaX Triumph
1 second ago
@silentcalling Items & moving maps are core to arena tdm games like Quake, or even Overwatch, which is why it amazes me that the Smash autists try to force Smash as a 1vs1 fighting game when it's clearly meant to be played within the same domain as Unreal or Quake styled TDM game. Smash's fanbase are nuts with how they just make up their own ruleset and then wonder why it's not balanced around the rules that they made up, LOL!
Meanwhile in a FPS, you're mostly honing in on your situational awareness & aim but the only button you're pressing for the most part are your shoulder triggers.
All of those complex input notations from fighting games is what kills your controller coz your putting so much pressure on multiple buttons at a time, as well as the dpad or analog.
I had to drop Terry in Smash coz his desperation move notations were breaking my faceoff controller.
I replaced him with Byleth who does just as much damage as he does but with much less effort, and far fewer button presses.
Cue-in the Smash Bros Tourneyfag defense league.
Renan Segalla
1 day ago
@silentcalling smash has been competitive for more than a decade, It is competitive by design and a history of balance issues does not chance that.
Sure, It has s Lot of casual content with fun itens and lots of rng, but none of that extra content is a "core mechanic".
MaX Triumph
7 seconds ago
@Renan Segalla Sure Smash could be competitive, but do what every other fighting game in the world does & use the actual default ruleset. Smash is the only competitive fighter where the fans make up the rules when it's clear that Smash isn't balanced around 1vs1 fighting. Smash is built more like an arena battle tdm, & competitive should revolve around that.
They are core functions of the game, as evidenced by how fucking boring Smash is when you get rid of the Unreal Tournament styled game design, with a forced fanmade ruleset that poorly imitates real fighting games.MaX TriumphGlitvhy -
Glitvhy -
12 hours ago
I'm not really into smash like that but seems it feels like everyone has a piece of the blame at this point players, devs, tourney orgs, and the community as a whole.
1 second ago
@Glitvhy - How is it Sakurai's fault? He doesn't even like competitive Smash & doesn't understand why you doofs try to force it as a Fox only 1vs1 game, lol.
I've listed many times why I don't like competitive Smash, the TLDR: Competitive Smash plays like a gimped, hadicapped Chun-Li. I specify Chun Li coz the ruleset that Smash Fags use, forces you into a meta that resembles Chun-Li's footsies based fighting style. Footsy in layman's terms is anti-air. Competitive Smash revolves around poking & anti air which is where the "Fox Only" meme stems from.
https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/no-items ... estination
Fox has fast pokes, fast projectiles & fast anti air. He's not as overpowered in Ultimate but the same basic ruleset applies. Just switch Fox with Joker or Lucina, who imo has even faster pokes & an even more unstaoppable anti-air game.
This here lies the problem with the competitive smash ruleset. It's not that competitive. You're stripping the core of the game to focus on a shallow interpretation of fighting when fighting games generally have multiple Meta combating for the top of the mountain. There is no one dominant Most Effective Tactics Available in fighting games. You merely have the most effective tactics according to your playstyle. The Smash Tourney competitive scene gimps the gameplay so much with their forced ruleset that you're forced to play as a Chun Li type of character, who doesn't even have acess to her basic chain combos & cross ups.
If you're from an actual fighting game background, this is boring because it devoles Smash into a game of I hit you, you hit me. Fighting games are meant to be a battle of the minds, but what mind games are there when we're all fishing for the same openings & counters? It becomes a game of who has the better reflexes, as such it's generally only old school Smash fags who have been playing since the original N64 Smash who make it to the top of the mountain coz strategy doesn't matter as much as reflexes do.
This is the exact opposite of the traditional fighting game philosophy where tactics matter far more than skill does. This is why OG Sagat is normally king in Super SF2T, because his entire moveset is such where he can do optimal damage from the exact opposite side of the screen and he has all of the basic tools he needs to keep his opponent away from him because even his long 7 ft tall limbs can be used as an Anti-Air (Footsies) of sorts with his own literal feet. He's that tall that he kicks high enough to knock you out of the air.
It's not a matter of skill, it's a matter of application. Zangief or Balrog could just as easily dash past Sagat's fireballs and one hit kill with a super spinning pile driver or a super buffalo rush, but in order to do so takes great planning & reading, which is a skill, but it's not a skill that reflects your reflexes. It's a skill that rewards your ability to think ahead. That's my biggest problem with Tourney smash. There's not enough depth to reward multi-layered mind games. Smash Competitive is functions fairly similarly to Starcraft competitive in the sense that top tier plays are memorized & internalized through repeat muscle memory & continous training of a repetitive sequence of events.
That's not at all what fighting games are supposed to be. Fighting games actually mimic MMA more than anything even though Fighting games have existed way before Professional MMA. Ever notice how fighting games don't really have a top all time great? Sure there's contenders to the throne such as Daigo or Wong, but like MMA, there's not undisputed champ coz one wrong read can make you instantly lose the entire match.
Smash isn't anything like that at all, because you usually don't instantly die after three hits. As was what I stated with my Lucina criticism.
viewtopic.php?f=10&t=8
_____Smash Bros tourney scene is a joke anyway coz you cats just make a up a bunch of stupid rules that we all have to abide by.
The funny part is that the rules that the Smash tourney scene come up with, are like a parody of actual fighting games, except you strip all of the fun parts from the game out of it.
Making is so that we're forced to play some boring ass poking, footsies game which bores the hell out of me coz Smash was never meant to be played like a traditional 1vs1 fighter and it shows by virtue of how limited the movesets are when compared to traditional fighters.'
Too bad Smash Tourneys actually make more money than proper Fighting game tourneys do. It's weird coz it's based around a rule set that Nintendo didn't make. I can't think of a single fighting game that does that.
If Smash scrubs were alive during the days of Street Fighter 2, Smash-scrubs would've outlawwed throwing, outlaw corners, and banned Guile.
It's the completely opposite of the fighting game philosophy. The FGC philosophy is usually, if it's in the game, you're allowed to use it. In Smash Tourney, you have to follow all of these stupid protocols that it's amazing to me that millions of people actually go along with it.
It's like playing 4-square, but you added in a bunch of rules to make it play more like Football, which is impossible and that's exactly the case with Smash. The tourney scene tries so hard to mimic a traditional fighter but it just feels like I'm playing a shell of a game with all of the fun crap stripped out of it.
Lucina is one of my mains, which I've heard is considered top tier in the West. i don't care what tier she is. I'm good with her because to me, she plays the most like a proper fighting game character. She has footsies that instantly connect on command and I can hit with her up special 9 times out of 10.They also tend to pretend they dont care about tiers while claiming they main some mid tier or lower.
That's the problem though. I shouldn't have to out play an opponent, more than 3 times just to get a win.
This is a problem inherent with SMash's goofy ass tourney ruleset.
In a real fighting game, you die if you get hit by the shoryuken more than 3 times, and you die if you get hit by the spinning pile driver at least twice.
In Smash Bros, I have to hit with her up special about 50 times before it finally lands a kill so in most cases you have to switch over to a forward or up smash to finish them off when in a normal fighter, I would'v already won coz I made the stupid chump jumped into my range more than 3x in a row, lol.
That's just me ranting. I love playing Casual Smash Bros, which feels like a FPS Deathmatch style game, even down to the random items, but then I'm confused as hell with how the actual tourney scene, ignores the obvious FPS-deathmatch similarities that Smash has, in favor of some stupid ruleset that pretends to be a 1vs1 fighting game, when it plays nothing like an actual fighting game. Real fighitng games don't give you as many chances to screw up as competitive Smash does.
Anyway fuck all that. I think Fighting games as a genre died, precisely coz it places far too much focus on the tourney scene. Tourney fags by their very nature are going to want the same exact game relesed over & over again so that they can retain the edge they have, over their opponents which increase their chances of a larger prize money pool.
