Killer7 SINdicate

Fuck melee and fuck its fanbase. Let that outdated shit die. People should know by now how strict Nintendo is with its properties, just like with streaming Nintendo games. They made it. They own it. They decide what can be done with it. If people don't like Nintendo's policies, then they should stop using their products. Its partly because of how Nintendo keeps a close eyes on their prosperities that they are so valuable

Melee needs to die, though. Its fanbase is cancer. Nintendo has been trying to put an end to Melee for years. They even removed it from official competitions. More than likely do to how toxic Melee fans are.

As you know, i'm random outsider so i dont know all details. Still, Nin always acts very annoyingly, lmao. Well, if you say so, then both sides are bastards :P

outdated shit

Hm. Someone lured me into false believe that later games in series degraded. So thats not truth?
Quote:

You do realize that the two games have completely different physics and that advanced techniques and movement options like wavedashing, shield dropping, edge cancelling, perfect pivoting, wavelanding off platforms all have been replaced with... absolutely nothing? Ultimate WISHES it could replace Melee in terms of competitive depth and its people like you that don't look into this stuff at all and go "lol just play the new one". People don't give a damn about it having "all the characters", they want to play a game where being on a platform doesn't feel like you're glued on.

Iwazaru wrote: ↑Wed Dec 09, 2020 3:13 pm As you know, i'm random outsider so i dont know all details. Still, Nin always acts very annoyingly, lmao. Well, if you say so, then both sides are bastards :P

outdated shit

Hm. Someone lured me into false believe that later games in series degraded. So thats not truth?
Quote:

You do realize that the two games have completely different physics and that advanced techniques and movement options like wavedashing, shield dropping, edge cancelling, perfect pivoting, wavelanding off platforms all have been replaced with... absolutely nothing? Ultimate WISHES it could replace Melee in terms of competitive depth and its people like you that don't look into this stuff at all and go "lol just play the new one". People don't give a damn about it having "all the characters", they want to play a game where being on a platform doesn't feel like you're glued on.

Melee is a broken unbalanced mess that fans love for 3 reasons.
1. Prestige as it was the first smash game to develop a huge tourny scene as well as a lot of peoples first altogether
2. Speed. The character movements and animations are way faster in melee
3. Exploits. There were glitches in the game that the tourney scene came to regard as high level skill moves. Primiarly, Wave dashing and L cancelling which allow certain character to completely break the game by moving faster than they are suppose to and skipping attack animations. There are others as well, like wobbling. The tourney scene saw these exploits as advanced moves instead, because they were difficult to pull off.

The later games are more evenly paced and balanced (excluding Bayonetta in 4 who completely broke the game after she was released) and they, obviously, fixed the exploits. This makes the game less cheesable, and melee fans refuse to upgrade or adapt. It would be like if a bunch of gamers just stopped playing Street Fighter at Alpha 3 or 3rd strike and refused to move on to 4 and 5 because they don't have the -isms like Alpha 3, or the parry system like 3rd Strike. When Nintendo hosted a tournment for Ultimate, a bunch of melee fans started disrespectfully booing and screaming to hurry up and get to melee. It wasn't too long after that when Nintendo stopped supporting melee at official competitions.



The melee community sees all those exploits as "high level" techniques...


There are "other" issues.



Note that this plagues the melee community the worst.

You're forgetting that even "combo" was originally glitch/exploit in SF...

Fightings (especially Tekken) are based on such tendencies in competitive scene.
This is also what keeps Devil May Cry's scorechasing community afloat (all those -cancel techniques, skip animation to chain one move into another etc.).

So this specific point is debatable :)

Neckbearded manbabies, on other hand...

I died constantly in the first Xenoblade, because of constantly having to maneuver to use the warning system and dodge boss attacks.

I dunno how you could die a lot in XB1. It's not a hard game at all. I'm guessing it was probably your first game with that style of MMOish combat. XB1 sure ain't Dragon Age Origins which actually is hard on the hardest difficulty. That's actually my argument, people overrate XB1 due to a sense of nostalgia during the era of when they played it. I and many people who played XB DE as their first XB1 experience, think the game is outdated as fuck, and is more of a "You had to be there!" moment. Except I think that too is just a meme. XB1 was never at Final Fantasy 7 level of fame. it was just a game that only Nintelards played, not unlike No More Heroes, a game that only Nintendo fans care about.

In XB1 only died a lot to that one bitch. That Big titty Entia chick who's part of the Disco Jecht & Alvis crew that you fight after Alvis recreated Shulk.


I hear that damn near everyone gets stuck on her, and even I did for half a day. I beat everyone on the first try except for her and Zanza. Zanza was easy as fuck though. (Not that it matters. Jrpg final bosses are always easy.)
I had trouble with that Entia bitch coz Melia is usually the only magick-based character I use, but Melia alone is not enough to beat her since she'll eventually get ganged up on. I had to rebuild my team around Melia, Riki & Sharla, which felt so cheap coz that's all I had to do to finally kill her.
Fiora is kinda magic based, but she's basically like a more combat focused Riki, in that she can play any role.

This is why I vastly prefer XB2 though. I can build my party any way I wish. I use Zeke as my main heler coz Ahko's healing multiplies times the dmg per hit and Zeke is the hardest hitter.
Elma & Fiora turn into combat healers if you bond them with Morag.

Going from that amount of customization to XB1 was a drag coz characters like Sharla are just completely useless. More useless than Nia. Nia can actually been build as a pure combat focused unit and do some mad damage. It's just that every other character is just naturally better built for offense. Nia is not even the best when it comes to healing. That's Zeke, lol!

In XB2, I did die a lot before I even got to the Gormotti town, but that was coz XB was still new to me and I didn't realize that you weren't supposed to fight everyone you see, who are overleveled anyway.

I didn't actually die either with the normal fights. THisi s why I always emphasize XB2 on BOC or Custom difficulty setting. I've always iterated that. I don't know why that gets ignored. I'd prob like XB1 too if it had a BOC equivalent but Expert mode is a joke. I don't know why they call it Expert mode when all it does is allow you to change your level, when you could already do that by default in XB2 through the inn.

I don't know how you came to the conclusion that nobdoy wants to learn the Xenoblade 2 combat system. There is nothing to really learn, because its so oversimplified. Just chain the same combo over and over, and then do the unite attack. Repeat. That's what I did, and I wrecked everything. The only times I died on 2 were when I tried to rush through something that was significantly higher level. I died constantly in the first Xenoblade, because of constantly having to maneuver to use the warning system and dodge boss attacks.

Dude you're just repeating the memes. You can do that same exact shit in XB1, and it's even easier coz you can effectively build Dunban & Fiora to auto-battle everything for you. That was my main complaint about XB DE, it didn't have a Bringer of Chaos equivalent difficulty setting. Even the challenge mode was easy.

Yes, you can do that, in normal mode of Day 1 release which is when you played Xenoblade 2. I played it in 2020 after Torna with the season pass which has the custom difficulty, Challenge mode & Bringer of Chaos modes, and it plays like a completely different game. Try doing that in Bringer of Chaos. You can't because that mode is specifically designed to force you to learn how to play the game because it's nearly impossible to max out your party gauge without building & gearing up towards critical hit refills. You actually have to use up your special techs to build up the meter faster. You rarely get a chance to activate the party gauge though coz Bringer of Chaos enemies will steal your meter.



Sure he made this look easy, and it looks exactly like what you think the combat is. What the fist guy is doing, is timing is button presses so his evasion tech activates right as she strikes him.She could've killed him any time, if he messed up just once. He did eventually nuke here with a chain combo, but that's coz he was able to build enough meter fast enough before she countered him.

This guy is going into detail about how he made his build.

There's a lot of people out there who swear by XB2's combat. We just get often drowned out by the Xenoblade1 baby brigade who hate every game except XB1, when XB1 has the weakest gameplay. Even amongst fans of the entire series they usually claim that XB1 has the best story (Also Fake news, LOL!), but the worst combat.

This is just something we'll never agree on, coz I already hate Jrpgs to begin with, due to their boring ass gameplay. You only play these games for the story. The problem is that after the 90s, damn near every Jrpg has had a shit plot. I think Jrpgs are some of the most poorly made games, 2nd only to survival horror. Which isn't even a real genre.
Xenoblade 2 was different to me, coz it made me reconsider Jrpgs. Are they actually good now? No they're still shit, lol. XB2 & Torna are just some weird anomaly where they became too experimental with the combat that it actually makes XB2 have more in common with strategy games and anime fighters than it does it's own genre.

The reflexes necessary aren't that advanced, but the planning & reaction time is somewhat similar to the pace of combat of such games as Kingdom Under Fire Crusaders & Heroes.
The KUF are much better games, coz they don't falsely advertise.
I'd argue that XB2 actually has better combat than KUF though, if only due to how in higher difficulties, you have a lot more hurdles to build a plan over and a lot of XB2's challenge battles require a more battle of attrition approach whereas in KUF, you can easily bumrush people in a manner of minutes once you have your calvary formations set up and aligned with your gun men positioned from higher terrain for support & covering fire.

XB2 has a similar amount of combat prowess, but only if you have the Season pass. I have no doubt that the original XB2 game is shit, coz it's probably just as bad as XB1 is. XB1 is prob a better game if you actually like Jrpgs. I generally only like Japanese dungeon crawlers though. Although XB1 & XB2 do turn into quasi dungeon crawlers during the last half of the game.
It doesn't really last though coz you eventurally become too over powered to the point that it no longer feels like a dungeon coz you're beating the shit out of everyone.

I'm surprised to see you post her videos.

I actually have no idea who she is lol! She just showed up in my recommends for some reason. (I don't actually watch Xeno content outside of Enel though, so I'm not sure why her XB DE review showed up. Every other Xeno fansite I've seen is written by retards who can't formulate proper arguments like xenogamer. https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCN41YN ... GZSYJjs9Lg )
I clicked her vid coz she looked cute. I also did not sub though, coz she says the same basic crap that every NintenLard says. It ain't nothing against her. I've seen White female grifter Nintenlards who say even more shill-ridden shit than she does. You can tell she's played through XB DE and loves it, which is more than what I can say for the rest of the bandwagon.

No I don't believe that she understands XB2 at all, but it's XB2's fault for not properly telling people how to play their own damn game. It's a similar case as Resident Evil 6, where there's a good combat system but you're never told how to use it. RE6 is even worse though coz the actual campaign is shit. XB2's campaign isn't shit. I laugh when you all gush about how big and open XB1's maps are when from my perspective, they're just big and empty. I prefer smaller more dense maps, with a much bigger population to deal with.

Granted, that same argument could be made for Age of Calamity (it has a similar semi open world design that's densely populated.) yet I think that game is boring as fuck. Difference here is that XB2's combat isn't a button masher grind fest. It's some anime fighting game meter management style of combat, as opposed to XB1's straight forward MMO style combat. XB1 resonates more, because Rpg fans are used to shitty ass MMO combat, LOL! They don't know dick about quasi fighting game systems though. Torna plays like a Tag Fighter.
As someone who comes from Strategy & Fighting games, of course I'm going to prefer the installment that borrows from fighting game management systems.


If you haven't noticed, Nintendo is starting to lose its luster with me. I'm getting sick & tired of their kiddy & casual games. I'll stay with them, only as my console alternative to gaming but I really do need a gaming pac coz Macbooks can't play shit. (It like only plays Total War and nothing else, lol. They didn't even get Xcom Chimera Squad, granted that game looks like ass.) The problem is, there's not really such thing as a real gaming laptop that can play top of the line shooters & action games.

I bought & sold nearly most of Switch's crap ass exclusive game library. Metroid Prime 4 is going to be the last straw for me. The quality of that game will decide how much money I decide to waste on Nintendo from this day onward.

Smash Bros Ultimate is like the only true great New game I've played on the Switch. All of the other games are just rereleases, lol.
Xenoblade 2 & Arms are probably like the only other good (but not great) games on the Switch, but that's due to how every other game is just a rerelease like Bayonetta 2.
I'd add Astral Chain to the list of good Switch exclusives. I haven't played it though and I have no interest in it. I prefer my games to be replayable. That's why XB2 earns such high marks from me, coz the battle system & custom difficulty alone makes it replayable. Nothing from XB1 or Torna is even in the same league of difficulty as XB2 BOC.

I like Xcom 2 over all of these games which shows to me that the Nintendo scene really isn't for me.
Have you seen their Eshop? It looks exactly like Steams, filled with a bunch of 8-bit 2 cent garbage indie trash. Switch seems to have lower standards for their shop than PSN & Xbawks live do.

I told you, its beause of unque nature of the characters, and the quests which you said you didn't even play. You're trying to rate a game when you didn't even do over half of its content.

What kind of argument is that? Did you do every single side quest in Skyrim, or Daggerfall? If so why? When most of the quests are just grinding, similar to how most of XB1 & 2's quests are just grinding.

What does unique nature mean? You didn't tell me shit. You told me memes. You basically just described Sharla, exactly as how she appeared when you first see her. My argument against that, was that she never developed after that. It's that how we grade characters? By their stereotype? LOL!

I thought the characters were extremely generic. Sharla for example has no character development at all. Dunban stops developing once he joins your party. All he does after that is cheerlead of Shulk & Fiora as best couple ever. I saw way more chemistry between Yuri & Karin, and that's his mom who eventually got teleported into the past to later give birth to Yuri, AYY LMAO!

I played it for over 175 hours. What do you think I was doing for over 175 hours?
On my dashboard it says I played for over 175 hours. In game I reloaded my save a lot while testing out builds. That's waht I play rpgs for. I like theorycrafting. XB1's theory crafting is fairly simple without the gems. In XB2, gems were replaced with Blade traits which function as their own set of mini quests.


I did do every single quest in Future Connected, mainly coz FC is like only 2 hours long & I wnated the entire Noppon army.
The actual game is like only 60 hours long at most. I wouldn't count that as not doing over half of the content when I've played it longer than most of the shills have. I beat it two times, and I was disappointed that the combat never changes.

I did enough endgame quests to unlock weapons & items, but no I did not bother to do most of the side quests. What's the point when they function like MMO? If I already don't like MMO combat, MMO game progression, how would I enjoy the game more from playing the MMO bullshit that I already hate? Last I recall, it was advertised as a RPG or JRpg, not MMO.

I honestly believe that Xenoblade only has the reputation it has, because it's a Nintendo game. Were it released on Playstation, it would've came & went. It'd have its small fanbase of fans who swear to you it's the best game evar, but for the most part, most people would ignore it. Not unlike how people treat the Shadow Hearts series.
The same argument holds true for XB2, although I do believe that more people would become aware of just how good XB2's combat actually is due to the much larger potential audience. Soy Station is also where most of the fighting game weebs dwell, so there'd be quite a number of animu fighter fags who could probably see the similarities that XB2 shares with their genre.
No I don't believe XB2 would've ever sold over 2 million copies on PS3 or PS4 though. XB2 only managed that coz it's a Nintendo exclusive. On Playstation it prob only sell as well as Tales of Namco does.


I just wont bother coz I realize that JRPG fans want completely different things from a game than I want. I've always maintained that JRPGs have shit combat & zero balance. That's exactly XB1's problem, It has no balance at all. (This isn't exclusive to Xeno though. Final Faggotry 7 & 6 had no balancing either. Especially 6 with the Ultima spam.)
I shouldn't be able to murk through the entire challenge mode on the first try. No I haven't soloed but who cares? Do you really need to solo when these games are meant to be played with a party?

XB2 was such a surprise to me because of how multi-layered the combat is. XB1 doesn't even have basic combos. They just have like two combat animations & you can cheese through the game by spamming Haste & doing speed builds, especially on Fiora who imo is the most OP character in the game. Melia is OP too, but only if you play as her.

I'm down for that Temple of Elemental Evil, classic Fallout, the Shadowrun games, Wasteland 2, anything tactical. Dragon Age Origins is my shit (Xb 2 actually comes the closest to me, despite how XB1's combat feels more like DA O, minus the strategy.)
I don't fucking understand the love for XB DE, coz both the combat & the story are extremely basic. I only understand the hype for the music. What the fuck makes Shulk such a well-written character when he's nothing more than a puppet who just does exactly what Alvis or Disco Jecht wanted him to do, throughout the entire game?

Alvis himself is a Deus Ex Machina, which last I recall is generally considered as bad writing amongst most literary circles and XB DE isn't exempt from that.
I'm not saying XB2 is literatur, hah not even close. It's just that XB2's plot has a much more logical flow. You're basically repairing a mentally broken machine known as Mythra due to mental anquish she suffered from attrocities that she causes 5 centuries in the past. That makes a lot more sense than the convoluted crap going on with Shulk.

I had an argument with Kax earlier coz it didn't make sense to him that Zanza, Shulk & Alvis were actually 3 different people. I berated him for that, but thinking about it, that does make a lot more for Shulk to be the whole persona, & Alvis & Zanza as just other layers of Shulk's psyche. Not unlike Fei & Id.
That however was not what XB1 was going for. Alvis straight up says to you that he's an information processing unit.

None of that actually makes sense though until you play XB2. Had I not played XB2 first, I'd have been lost with XB1's ending coz the whole Zanza, Shulk & ALvis connection really doesn't make sense until you realize that Alvis is just the God from outside the machine, who makes up rules as he goes along. XB2 made sense out of that through the Trinity processor where the game explains to you how Alvis is able to do the feats that he's done. (They call him Ontos though.)

Iwazaru wrote: ↑Wed Dec 09, 2020 7:21 pm You're forgetting that even "combo" was originally glitch/exploit in SF...

Fightings (especially Tekken) are based on such tendencies in competitive scene.
This is also what keeps Devil May Cry's scorechasing community afloat (all those -cancel techniques, skip animation to chain one move into another etc.).

So this specific point is debatable :)

Neckbearded manbabies, on other hand...

What the fuck does that have to do with what Krizz is talking about? Combos started off as a glitch but it was obvious by the time they made Champ edition, that the combos became an intentional part of the game. The reason why combos worked as well as they did was due to how the glitch was just the end result of the hitstun that Crapcom programmed in between each hit to prevent you from constantly attacking. This is the reason why Japanese melee games tend to have a smoother battle flow, they program hitstun or delay times between each action. Some move animations have less reaction times or frame animations, which create the combo.

In Western games like Killer Instinct or Mortal Kombat, they don't program a hit stun. The combo is actually part of a long sequence of button presses, otherwise known as dial a combos.
Dial a combo exists in Tekken, Soul Calibur, DOA, Ninja Gaiden etc. but what makes those games different is that the dial a combos themselves also have a hitstun delay, and for the most part the actual combos won't reliably hit the opponent if they can counter or block in time, between each frame delay.

This isn't so for Killer Instinct or Mortal Kombat where you're a sitting duck once a dial a combo has been inputted. This is why KI has combo breakers, which break out of the combo. It turns the battle into a rock paper scissors game though, and unlike Dead or Alive, you can't constantly reverse the reversals.
Tekken gets around this through the frame delay, which is why most proficient players go for juggles, because there is no guard or counter against juggles once you've been launched.

I fucking hate juggle combos but the KI & Mortal Kombat alternative is even worse, because their solutions breaks the pacing of the combat. (I honestly don't know what counters MK has against long combos, lol.)
Me personally, for better aesthetics I'd turn that juggle into a Dizzy, with dizzies being initiated with stun equivalent launcher opening attacks. Similar to how the Yakuza games do it. You don't see juggles in Yakuza. They just get dizzy, leaving them open for a juggle length combo.

The later games are more evenly paced and balanced (excluding Bayonetta in 4 who completely broke the game after she was released) and they, obviously, fixed the exploits. This makes the game less cheesable, and melee fans refuse to upgrade or adapt. It would be like if a bunch of gamers just stopped playing Street Fighter at Alpha 3 or 3rd strike and refused to move on to 4 and 5 because they don't have the -isms like Alpha 3, or the parry system like 3rd Strike. When Nintendo hosted a tournment for Ultimate, a bunch of melee fans started disrespectfully booing and screaming to hurry up and get to melee. It wasn't too long after that when Nintendo stopped supporting melee at official competitions.

What Krizz said about SF Alpha is exactly the same argument that most of us FGC cats always have whenever we talk shit about Smash. In SF, damn near nobody likes SFV, but they still play it coz it's the most recent game. You can't keep living in the past. Do people honestly want to watch a Super Turbo tournament when we already know who's going to win? (daigo)
After a certain point, there's just no reason to keep hosting tournaments of old games any more, because the people who've been playing since day 1 of a 2 decade old game, are always going to have a huge advantage over everyone else just due to their veteran status

That's the reason why most people move on to the most recent game. It helps even the playing field coz we all start back at ground zero, re learning the game's new rulesets.
I'm really good at SF4, but I actually fucking hate that game. I only play it, coz I can actually consistently win, even against pro level tourney players. I can't win against any body in SFV coz it plays so different from typical Street Fighter. SFV locks out all of your tactical opportunities through the V-trigger system. So the end result is a game that revolves more around quick reflexes rather than long term tactical planning. SFV is basically a less shitty version of Fantasy Strike, AYY LMAO!

Fantasy Strike alone taught me that SFV isn't that bad, coz it could've been much worse. It could've been Sirlin's game LOL! A shame, coz I agree with a lot of Sirlin's fight logic but for some reason he made a game that revolved around 50/50 combat where matches are completely decided by guessing correctly rather than cultivating multiple plans at a time. This is the reason why Daigo is such a king, coz he actually is devising multiple gameplans all throughout the match (Even Justin Wong admits this.) and he'll out play you, because he already knows your plan, before you even become aware of what you're doing.

That's the essence of fighting games. They're supposed to play out like those old ass Kung Fu movies, where both fighters are constantly holding back until they're forced to use all of their strategies that they have stored.
V-trigger kills this, coz it stores the strategies for you but it also telegraphs to your opponent that you've gotten serious and plan to unleash your hidden tactical reserves. Except it's not hidden in SFV, coz the damn V-triger alerts the opponent, LOL! Fuck that game. I'd rebuy it again just for Akira though. I played the hell out of Rival Schools back during the first year that I dropped out of Highschool. Akira, Edge & Daigo were my mains.

Neckbearded manbabies, on other hand...

The manbabies are the Pro scene. Even among the FGC, they often claim that at EVO, Smash Bros Pro players smell like shit, AYY LMAO! They must smell like modern day Wrestler fans. (When I was a kid, Wrestling fans were Jocks or thugs like me, not the fat nerds you see today.)
I've only played against Asian Smash Bro players in real life, so at most they just like oriental food. (Why do they always smell like food? LOL!)

I've played competitive Smash, it's fucking boring. It doesn't resemble a fighting game at all. There's a reason why No items, Fox only, Final Destination is such a meme.
https://www.ssbwiki.com/No_items,_Fox_o ... estination
I got my ass murked in college back when they were playing Melee. It didn't really look like skill to me. It was clearly just exploits. It's more of a case of, if you're not cheating, you're not trying and that's the worst situation for a competitive game to be in. You're not grading who's the most skilled. You're grading on who can cheat the most efficiently.
What makes Street Fighter such a different case is that attempting to fix the combo glitch would've ruined the combat flow of the game. The original Street Fighter 2 had Guile Hand cuffs, but they never bothered to retain that.


Smash tards try so damn hard to make Smash play like 1vs1 Street Fighter when the actual movesets don't support 1v1 combat. It's actually impossible for some characters to even get a hit on a pro player in 1v1 precisely due to how Smash's combat wasn't designed towards 1v1 play.

Byleth for example, can't hit shit if you go up against a Smash veteran 1v1. I know this for certain coz every time I got into a battle royale as Byleth, I'd always be one of the last two standing but then the rest of the match is just me whiffing every single hit & grab, coz she's too damn slow & can't react fast enough.
It's funny coz I'll murk everyone else in the battle in the first minute or so, but then the rest of the 15 minute match is just me trying to fucking hit the pro faggot at least once. They try to hit me too, but due to my previous fighting game experience, I'm pretty good at evading & blocking hits.

The prob is that I can't mount an offense at all, due to the character that I'm playing as. Byleth just wasn't designed around 1v1 gameplay. It's why I switch over to Palutena, who's normals have so much range (her up smash covers nearly half of the vertical screen real estate.) that I can just bust out one of her smash attacks the instant that I initiate it, to knock these motherfuckers out of the damn stage.
Palutena's normals also have great punishment (her basic A button combo) & entrapment (her light forward tilt.) capabilities which mess well with her laser beam zoning.

The later games are more evenly paced and balanced (excluding Bayonetta in 4 who completely broke the game after she was released) and they, obviously, fixed the exploits. This makes the game less cheesable, and melee fans refuse to upgrade or adapt. It would be like if a bunch of gamers just stopped playing Street Fighter at Alpha 3 or 3rd strike and refused to move on to 4 and 5 because they don't have the -isms like Alpha 3, or the parry system like 3rd Strike. When Nintendo hosted a tournment for Ultimate, a bunch of melee fans started disrespectfully booing and screaming to hurry up and get to melee. It wasn't too long after that when Nintendo stopped supporting melee at official competitions.

I completely agree with this. Nintentoddlers yet again proving that they're babies. No other fighting community acts like this except for Smash Bros. I mean sure, Blazblue fans still play Central Fiction over Blazblue X Tag, but that makes sense to me since Blazblue Cross Tag doesn't even play like Blazblue. It's basically SF X Tekken. Central Fiction is the most recent Blazblue.


Krizz actually called this guy out a long time ago, but damn was he right.

This motherfucker is all shilling for Smash Bros Melee when he doesn't even play games competitively. I eventually realized that he's bullshit after I saw his Goy of War review from a few years ago. He said Goy of War had the best combat he's ever seen, AYY LMAO! I think he's generally correct when it comes to games that don't have gameplay like ADV or JRpgs, but a massive moron with everything else. He has an easier time with ADV or Jrpgs, coz all he has to do is talk about the story.

The shit he's saying aren't even facts though. It's just his opinion. "NINTENDO HATES THEIR FANS!"
Oh and Soyny doesn't? Like I said earlier, Nintendo is a shitty corporation but they're still better than Microdik & Soyny. Microdik doesn't want you to own games any more, just buy gamepass, the Netflix of gayming. (As if being Netflix were brag-worthy.) Soyny wants you to buy games at $70 as the standard when $60 is already too damn expensive when you consider that modern era games are still using mid level 2012 technology, LOL! More like 2008 in regards to Switch, but Nintendo is a special cases where I begrudgingly accept the price tag coz their Mario games are legit good.




These recent Smash Bros post should really go in the fighting game thread, coz it's just going to get lost in the Nintedno thread which generally has nothing to do with gameplay. Unlike Jrpgs, I actually respect Fighting games and can go on for days just talking about the play mechanics. Jrpgs are that bullshit I laugh at, coz people legit play these games for the story. It can't be the gameplay. The gameplay fucking sucks!
With Jrpgs, I legit don't understand how people grade those games. It's just so subjective because most of the time, I think the stories are some of the most generic teen-angst crap I've ever seen. We still have teen angst in modern games, but it's expressed through shit like Last of Us 2 tranny butt sex.

The same goes for survival horror. How the fuck do people pretend to like Resident Evil 2 & 3 remake? Even RE1 remake is shit. RE1 on psx was scarier due to the lack of technology which created an Ecco the Dolphin like Nightmare fuel effect. At least with RE4-6 plus Revelations, you can have real discussions about the gunplay mechanics and how well designed or horrible they were.

You don't really discuss those things with survival horrors or jrpgs coz much of the conversation revolves around written or visual medium, negating the need to discuss about the non-existent gameplay.

Ain't TLOU2 have RE-like combat finally though?



ok, joking :mrgreen:

How the fuck do people pretend to like Resident Evil 2 & 3 remake?

Eh, is it hard to you for accept that bunch of people sincerely love games that you don't? Including Xenoblade 1 :lol:

What the fuck does that have to do with what Krizz is talking about?

I underestimated how exploity Smash's expoits, and Krizz sounded a bit like a person who can't get into stuff like korean backdash in tekken, which isn't "hacky exploit", but a well-known tool that is expected to be used by anyone higher than entry tiers.

Anyway, i'm still wondering to know what "deep stuff" modern Smash have to compensate "lack of teh exploits" :lol: Or it's SF2-like "back to fundamentals" case?

people legit play these games for the story

It's just those fuckers can't stomach killing more than a few enemies, so they whine all time that jrpg is grind. I always hated those so-called "jrpg players" who actually only play for teh story and not for overall bundle. Among FFs, i enjoyed the most the ones with job system. For example, FF5, was fun to try out all those different classes. Beastmaster and blue mage, monk, samurai (lol, damage with money!) etc.

I applaud nintendo's bravery into picking the least interesting characters possible for their paid DLCs

Eh, is it hard to you for accept that bunch of people sincerely love games that you don't? Including Xenoblade 1 :lol:

Or maybe I just have high standards and don't like to see regression.
Even Crapcom knows that RE2 & 3 remake are a regression coz they only sold them for $40 new. Just ask Xed about RE2 remake. He played that game at its highest settings and completed it over & over. (I'm of the rule of thought that all critiques about a game are invalid unless played at the highest settings coz that's where you test out to game to see if the rulesets work within the game's framework. Within reason. Doom 2016's hardest setting is just an Iron man mode, so it's a waste of time.)
It was actually him who convinced me to drop it. I didn't think it was that bad, but I owned it for 2 months and only played it for 20 hours so clearly, I wasn't having much fun with it. Since he played it for over 100 hours, I heeded his word coz I ignored him last time when he told me that Revelations 2 sucks & RE2 Raid mode is fucking garbage.

What happened? It turned out that Rev 2 is one of the worst games I ever played, with also one of the worst stories I've ever seen. I honestly don't understand how the fuck Rev 2 earned the reputation of having the best plot for an RE game, when I actually think that Rev 2's writing is even worse than normal. Gamers just don't understand writing or narratives at all, if REV 2 passes for good plot. None of the RE games have good writing but RE 1-3 & two Outbreaks had the best writing, simply coz they were the least retarded.

I ignored Xed, coz Rev 1 is actually one of the best REs from a gameplay perspective and the Raid mode is actually fun. RE1 Raid mode is a dungeon crawler. RE2 Raid mode was a LootGrind style Action Rpg Shooter.
the difference between the two is that RE2 Raid mode revolves around its shit combat and you can't progress until you kill everything. RE1 revolves around dungeon crawling, you're only required to find the exit.
Yet again it also has one of the worst plots, but RE games have shitty writing by default, so playing those games for story really just makes me question ones' sanity.

Including Xenoblade 1

Look back to previous pages in this thread where I go in-depth about the differences between the games. You faggots act like I'm just speaking out of my ass when I actually take the fucking time to write out novel length posts to explain what's wrong with them. I wrote multiple post about the XB games in pages 15 through 19. How much more do I need to fucking say when you assholes keep fucking ignoring me? As if I made zero arguments when the reality is that you fags ignore my arguments.

It's always like this with video games. If you criticize a game, that allegedly means you don't know what you're talking about. Yet it's a double standard when people throw endless praise at a game, are assumed to be aware of which they speak, when they're just as susceptible to blowing nothing but hot air. I'm one of the few people who will actually tell you that Silent Hill games suck dick. They're only loved for the story. It's a problem that's common with JRPGS & Survival horror. The best writing I've seen from games usually come from amateur made rpg maker games, like this one game I saw which was ported over to PC-98. I don't remember the name, it was made by Japs.


As for Xenoblade. People like Krizz are obviously talking about Day 1 Xenoblade 2. I'm talking about modern Xenoblade 2. This is the divide. Early adopters played a completely different game from what I played.
Modern XB2 + Season pass has many more options, difficulty sliders, a challenge mode that's actually hard & an expanded roster to the point that it feels like a completely different game. Modern XB2 is a completely different game from what he played.
DO you honestly think that people who played Rainbow 6 Siege 2015, are the same exact people who played Rainbow 6 Siege 2020? Check out the rosters between the two. The character selection alone tells you it's a different game.
https://www.ubisoft.com/en-us/game/rainbow-six/siege
(Looks too anime now though, LOL! People already thought it became way too anime by 2018.)
The differences between the versions are so vast that they may as well be labeled as different games. Similar to what we had in the old days with SF2, SF2 Champ Edition, SF2 Hyper Fighting, Super, Super Turbo, etc.

The modern era actually patches in those updates for free, rather than forcing you to buy the same $60 game 5 times. Rainbow 6 Siege was widely regarded as a trash game when it first came out. It didn't finally get good until 2017.

It's a similar case with XB2, the DLC expanded Blade roster added in so many new abilities and ways to play the game, that it feels nothing like what the Day 1 XB2 players played.
https://xenoblade.fandom.com/wiki/Blade
I can't even imagine playing this game without Corvin, and it's hard to believe that he's not even in the original version of XB2.
XB2 with Torna + Season Pass feels like a Xeno allstars since it has characters from every Xenoblade game, + a few from Xenosaga.
Blades function like demons from Devil Survivor 1. They function as your move set, equipment & your base affinities. Some of them even come with their own devil trigger functions like Elma's overdrive.

You actually have to learn how to play the game on BOC or custom slider with party gauge slider down to 1. (It's on 3 by default in the original vanilla game.)
You can't cheese the game with the party gauge on its hardest settings, because you'll rarely ever have a full party gauge. You actually have to change the way you play and use each tier of your special art according to your need. Tier 1 special is good for building up gauge. Kos-Mos tier 2 special is the best healing attack in the game, which is amusing coz she's not a healer. Similarly, Fiora is the best DPS DMG of XB2, despite how Fiora is supposed to be a healer. She is a good healer though. She just also does the most consistent dmg


Xenoblade 1 is often regarded within its own fanbase to be as high caliber of a game as Chrono Trigger or FF6 or Final Fantasy 7, when that's clearly not true. Xenoblade 1 would've been a generic rpg with a small niche audience had it been released on the PS2. (Sure it was made during the Wii generation, but the orginal XB looks like a PS2 game.)
There's nothing about Xb1 that truly stands out, aside for maybe the setting but the setting is pulled off better in XB2, where you actually see the limbs, & faces of the monsters you're living on, in real time gameplay.

Final Fantasy 7's plot actually had depth to it. There was a point to Cloud being a marionette, because his life was a lie and he was pretending to be somebody else. In XB1, you're a marionette because Entia whore & Disco jecht were using you as a host, and Alvis was just playing games to see if humans have the ability to exercise their free will. The problem is that Alvis is a literal Deus Ex Machina. Things only happen in the plot, whenever Alvis wills it to happen. There's many instances where the only reason you survived is coz Alvis willed it into being. (The first time you meet The Telethia, 2nd time you meet Telethia. The part when he reawakes you from a dream, when you were actually dead. There's many more scenes which only exist due to Alivs, but that's just the few off the top of my head.)

FF7 was quite different coz the overall plot revolved around the energy of the world being depleted through an industrial revolution. Said energy that powered the world is actually the life force of humanity, and their symbiotic relationship with FF7's planet. Cloud & company each have their own story arcs that get just as much development as the story itself. (Well most of them do. Cait Sith had a plot twist, but no real development.)
XB1's core of its plot centralizes around a God who's disciples manipulated everything behind the scenes so that the god may be reborn, and do what he wishes with the world, to destroy what he had created, because he feels like it.
The inner struggle is for Shulk & company to forge their own destiny of their own free will, away from any influence of gods. It's basic ass JRPG bullshit.
There's a reason why Final Fantasy 7 still magnetizes people to this day. It truly had a unique plot of its time, and it's still unique in the modern era.
Sephiroth is basically the Moby Dick of the FF7 setting. Seph is an allegory, who's meaning changes depending on the character.
Cloud even tells his crew right before they enter the final dungeon, that they're free to leave if they want.
They all chose to stay, because Sephiroth represented an end of their personal growth. For some, it was more personal like with Vincent. For others, Sephiroth was more of a metaphorical hurdle like with Bullet & Cid.
For others like Tifa, it was her showing her devotion & loyalty to Cloud's purpose.

FF7 wraps up nicely, with a bow on top. Most of the stories logically fall into place without the need for a LOL "ROBOT GOD SOLVED EVERYTHING! DERP! BEST STORY EVAR!" In Xenoblade 1, your entire cast are just following Shulk, just because. THey don't really have a reason to, save for Fiora, Reyn, Dunban & Melia. The former three cos they're his childhood friends. Melia coz she wants to fuck him.


This yet shows another reason why FF7 is superior from a narrative perspective. None of the characters are child hood friends at all. Cloud & Tifa were acquainted before the game began, but they didn't have an actual friendship until shortly before the game started. FF7 has a cast where every single individual is following you for their own reasons. In XB1, they have no reason at all, aside for being friends with you before the game started. You can easily write out Sharla & Riki, and you wouldn't change the plot at all.
This is only true for Yufie & Vincent in FF7 but even those two add a ton more to the FF7 lore than Sharla & Riki did within their own games. (I Love Riki though. I ain't hating on him. He's the best XB1 character, lol!)
Yufie's plot added more to the colonist like nature of Shinra. Vincent's plot added more to the background story of Hojo, & Seph.


I firmly believe that XB (the franchise) is only where it's at because it's a Nintendo game. The gameplay is an even more shallow version of FInal Fantasy XII, both games eventually reach a point where you're just watching the game play itself. The only reason why XII is slightly better is due to the Zodiac Lion rerelease which added in classes, and the need to multiclass your characters.
You can't even do that in XB1, because everyone except for Riki has a role that they're forced to stick to, and you can't really build them outside of their proficiency. Sharla will always be useless coz the only thing she's good at is healing, but healing is useless in Xenoblade games, since at high level gameplay, you're supposed to kill everything before you need to heal.

This is why XB2 is way better from a gameplay perspective, because you can spec your builds anyway you wish. Nia can actually be remade into a DMG beast, and even a tank. She just won't be as good as the other tank or dmg, but she's competent. Sharla is just there. She's a waste of space. Especially when you finally get Melia.

That's another thing, Melia completely breaks the entire game because her elemental bursts have no down time. The entire game is broke. There's no balance at all, which is prob why they didn't even bother to make a Bringer of Chaos mode for XB DE. They added in Expert which does nothing but choose your level, because even the devs realized that if you play every single sidequest, that you'll be over leveled by the time you reach the game.

I really don't understand how playing the sidequests would make the game better in that regard, when it makes an already easy game, even simpler. On top of that, it's boring ass Single player MMOrpg style fetch quests.
Am I missing something here? I don't recall any Witcher 3 Red Baron style side quests from any Xeno game.
Hell, Torna could've easily been better than XB1 & XB2 had it not forced you to play through 75% of the Side quests just to be allowed to beat the game.

This argument, that I supposedly didn't play enough of a game that I played for 175 hours, simply because I didn't bother with most of the sidequests, holds no weight to me. If You played 5 sidequests, you've played them all coz they're all just variations of the same boring ass chores, the only thing that changes is the volume of the repetitive tasks that you're asked to do or collect. You all call this fun?

It's just those fuckers can't stomach killing more than a few enemies, so they whine all time that jrpg is grind. I always hated those so-called "jrpg players" who actually only play for teh story and not for overall bundle. Among FFs, i enjoyed the most the ones with job system. For example, FF5, was fun to try out all those different classes. Beastmaster and blue mage, monk, samurai (lol, damage with money!) etc.

Can you blame them when Jrpgs have boring ass gameplay that actually does feel like grinding? In competitive games, all you do is grind. The entire gameplay loop is the match. Whether it be a fighting game, FPS or a sports game. The difference is that you're rarely going through the motions in those types of games. The meat of the gameplay is to win, the actual act of winning, is a challenge because you're playing against a human opponent who also wants to win. Jrpg on the other hand, are filled with what's known as blob combat. You basically just auto battle everything except for the bosses. There's only a few Jrpgs that don't play like this, like the Romancing Saga Frontier series.

IMO Xenoblade 2 feels like a real time version of Valkyrie Profile 2 Silmeria. There's a lot of meat to the combat, you just need to change the difficulty setting though, lol. Yeah ain't that crazy? A hard mode that actually makes the game hard, LOL!

We're really not talking about the same thing at all. I'm saying that Jrpgs are so shit, that the only quality they have is the story. The actual gameplay is an afterthought, and this is especially true for Xenoblade 1, though XB1 is not the lone perpetuator nor is it the worst offender of the Jrpg grind.

One series that I really don't understand the love for is Breath of Fire. Damn near every Youttuber from Razorfist to Projared, have all claimed that Breath of Fire games are good & some of the best the genre has to offer, when you do nothing but grind boring ass battles in BOF games. BOF combat plays out like a really slow version of Dragonquest, except you actually see every attack animate. They animate really slowly though. The grind is as high as Phantasy Star 2, which was already overkill in that game.

The only thing interesting about BOF games actually was the story. Every BOF game did have fairly interesting stories though. It's just the gameplay is so terrible that before youtube, you punished yourself to get through the game just to see the story. I never even beat BOF1 or BOF3 (got stuck at the desert), and I got bored midway through BOF4 since I didn't finally play that game until 2016 on PSN. It's a problem I have with most rpgs from that era. I can't stomach them anymore since modern game standards have much better balancing.
Rpgs back in the day, were able to get away with their bloat & bullshit, because they were the only genre that offered 50+ hour experiences.

As for what I would consider an underrated masterpiece. Lufia 2. That's one of the best SNES Jrpgs of all time that gets overlooked. It's kinda like Xenoblade 2 though in that the main game is easy as fuck, but the post game is hardcore as hell. Phantasy Star 4 is one of the best period, but it's not underrated. It just gets hated coz it's not a Nintendo game, lol!
My fave over all are Uncharted Waters New Horizons, Romance of the Three Kingdoms 4, Ogre Battle, Front Mission & Tactics Ogre, but those are all a completely different style of game than what Final Faggotry or Xenoblade are going for. The games I mentioned feel more like open world simulators. Except for Front Mission & Tactics which are both Tactics Strategy Rpgs.

Xed51 wrote: ↑Fri Dec 11, 2020 1:20 am
I applaud nintendo's bravery into picking the least interesting characters possible for their paid DLCs

Nah I disagree. I actually want to buy the 2nd season pass now. Smash Bros needed another villain who wasn't from a Nintendo game (Ridley, King K Rool, Bowser, Gannondorf, King Dedede, Wario, Star Wolf, & Meta-Knight) and Sephiroth is generally top of that list. I prefer him way more over Sora.
Either way, those two were going to be generic swordsmen, but at least Seph's moveset actually references things he's done in FF7. His jumping down meteor attack is a direct reference to the move he used to one hit kill Aeris, AYY LMAO!

Sadly this does imply that Sora may not make it in after all since Seph took his spot, but at the same time I think it's the right move coz way more people have nostalgia for Seph, he's also a villain (all of the dlc have been good guys, except for maybe Steve, who murders everyone in Minecraft, lol.)
He also seems to be a heavyweight, but with a fairly unique sword moveset since most of his attacks are stabs.
I think Lucina will still be the top stabber, mainly coz she's shorter & faster, but still hits like a fucking monster truck.

Ain't TLOU2 have RE-like combat finally though?

I don't see how that's anything like RE at all. It just looks like typical Sony gameplay where you activate a button and then a movie plays. What's next, are you going to show me Spiderman combo videos in an attempt to convince me that it plays like Devil May Cry? When in reality they just cropped the video to hide the button prompts LOL!
Have you even played RE mercs ever? You can't even do melee attacks until you stun them first. In LOU, you can spam melee attacks & play it as if it were Yakuza. You can even do that in LOU1.

When you say these things, it just makes it obvious to me that you never played the game in question. I haven't played LOU2, but do I really need to when the gameplay looks exactly like LOU1?

This is why games are graded by their gameplay. Not by how they're animated. It's easy to fake game mechanics by copying an animation style. It doesn't automatically implement the game's rulesets though.
Look at how different Uncharted & Gears of War play. Uncharted is the exact pop-a-mole cover shooting stereotype that everyone thinks Gears of War is. GOW is different though, coz it really does feel like football but with chainsaws. In Gow, you're looking for opening so that you can run in and just chainsaw or shotgun gib people to death in 1 hit. Most people who hate GOW, played it as if it were Uncharted where the optimal way to play on the highest difficulty setting is to pop-a-mole, hide behind cover & take pot shots.

You could try to melee in Uncharted but it only works on the normal setting & easier coz you'll just get shot to death on any other setting. In Gow, they want you to run straight into the fire, it's why it has a term called wall jumping, which is a movement that allows you to jump from wall to wall to navigate faster, into your opponents.

Anyway, i'm still wondering to know what "deep stuff" modern Smash have to compensate "lack of teh exploits" :lol: Or it's SF2-like "back to fundamentals" case?

Smash revolves around positioning, footsies & control of space. Smash has every single tactical stratagem that Street Fighter has in regards to approach of combat.
You don't need all of those Smash Melee movement options when Smash by default already moves as fast as King of Fighters and it even has similar movement as KOF. IN Kof, you're hopping everywhere. Guess what? You're also hopping everywhere in Smash. See you're doing this again, you didn't really play the games so you assume that they must play a similar way, like when you thought that LOU 2 played like a RE game, lol. You also seem to be under this impression that Smash Bros has normal movement, like a Street Fighter when Smash is most comparable to an Anime fighter (minus the combos) or King of Fighters. The pace of the fighting is as fast as King of Fighters & the movement is similar to King of Fighters, which is probably why they included Terry Bogard or a SNK rep, coz Smash Bros. movement owes a lot to King of Fighters.

They both have hops, they both have background evasion moves, they both have forward & backward dash evasion steps. If you know how to move in King of Fighters, then you know how to move in Smash Bros. It's the same movement system.

I underestimated how exploity Smash's expoits, and Krizz sounded a bit like a person who can't get into stuff like korean backdash in tekken, which isn't "hacky exploit", but a well-known tool that is expected to be used by anyone higher than entry tiers.

Most people don't use Korean wavedash outside of competitive matches coz it's unneeded. Wavedashing is used to keep you guessing. You can't tell what move they're inputting, because you only see the wavedash being animated. In Tekken, moves are activated depending on your stance. Julia Chang does a high kick that flips you backwards whenever she inputs high kick from a rising squat position.
When you wavedash you could combo into her high kick, but she could also spin around you or fake you out and do a ground sweep followed by a mid hit kick from the wave dash position. Wavedashing in Tekken isn't about evasion, it's meant to hide your method of attack from the opponent. It's completely different from Smash Fag wavedashing. What moves are you trying to conceal with a Smash wavedash when every single move in the game is activated through analog tilts, LOL! You can already input any special move you want just from the neutral position.

Smash exploits merely do nothing but make it easier for you to out move or dodge your opponent. It turns Smash into a game of reflexes, based off of who can hit those moves the fastest. It takes away strategy from the game. Strategy in fighters is not "YOU dodge, so I dodge too, then I go for a hit."
Strategy in fighters refers to your overall game plan. It's similar to how in Football, you have a collection of plays that your squad refers to, in order to counter the opposing team's plays. You're following a method of attack. You rarely react, coz that's how you lose. You lose the moment you start reacting, because reacting in fighting games means that you're being controlled by your opponent. You want them to react to you, not the other way around.

When a fighter is nothing but fucking retards reacting to each other, you get shit like Competitive Smash.
The irony is that Competitive Smash actually is the most popular professional fighting tourney scene, which makes no sense to me but I attribute that to Nintenlards being a special breed of people, special as in obsessive compulsive disorder & autistic, lol.

See man, this is why you fucking faggots need to move this gay ass Smash shit to the Fighting game thread, coz this gameplay shit is just going to get lost in the Nintentard thread.