Killer7 SINdicate

[Jack]

Talk shit or fan over the company that was once American, but eventually got taken over by Japs.
Sega, they're my all time fave company, who are sadly content with just shilling the past over & over since they make way more money now just with their publishing deals.

Why do people act as though Sega got their asses kicked during the 16 bit wars? I see so much historical revisionism from Nintendoshills on the internet.
Like this mang, wtf.

https://www.quora.com/Why-did-Sega-fail
When the SNES came out, they made the Genesis.

Genesis existed way before SNES did, I know coz I bought a Genesis before SNES ever existed. I remember just seeing a commercial of the Genesis one day and I just shouted to my mom "Get me that for Xmas." I didn't even know what the fuck it was, I just thought that Golden Axe, Revenge of Shinobi & Altered Beast looked so damn cool. Thankfully by Xmas, I got me a system with Sonic which completely blew me away at the time coz it looked even better than Mario 3, Ay LMAO!

My pops got After Burner 2, my sister chose Castle of Illusion starring Mickey Mouse and for some reason I chose Decap Attack, which is a good game but I knew nothing about it, I just though the cover looked cool, lol.

What I'm fucking shocked by, is that my parents actually bought a SNES a year later, lol. If I were a parent, I wouldn't have done that, I'd tell my spoiled bitch kids to suck it up coz I already bought them an overpriced piece of shit toy the year prior. (As spoiled as I am, I find it a miracle that I didn't grow up to be a softy faggy soyboi. I grew up hard as hell, hey getting shot at does that to you. Having people attempt to kill you tends to harden you up.)

I think the reason why my folks bought me a SNES though is so my pops could play Street Fighter 2. That's how mainstream SF2 was back in the day.
SF2, MK3 and then later Killer Instinct were like the main reasons most people I knew owned a SNES.

Back in the early 90s though, there were way more kids playing Genesis due to Madden, Mutant League Football, & Streets of Rage 2.

Here's another fucking lie, Fuck off mang.

Their one success was made by not so much challenging Nintendo to their turf as doing what NintenDON’T and releasing the non-family friendly games, the sports games, the games with blood and gore (and not bowdlerising Mortal Kombat even if Sub Zero’s SNES ice-shatter fatality was the best).

Genesis & SNES were near dead even during the early 90s, that Mortal Kombat debacle though was the first solid blow that did major damage to Nintendo at the time, but prior to that the two systems were damn near neck to neck with each other.
It wasn't until Donkey Kong Country that Nintendo finally started to whoop on Genesis's ass. By the time I came back to America (I was living Portugal & Germany in the early 90s & 80s.) around 95 & 96, barely anyone was playing Genesis anymore due to DKC & Killer Instinct.
I only remember playing SOR2 every once in awhile, and I'd sell Shinobi 3, Beyond Oasis, Light Crusader and all these Sega exclusives just so I could buy me SNES exclusives like Kirby Super Star, Final Fantasy 6, Chrono Trigger, Lufia 2, Romance of the Three Kingdoms 4, Samurai Shodown, I was a hardcore Jrpg / Fighting game nut by the end of the 16 bit era.

I only owned about 10 - 15 Genesis games, but every game I had are the same exact games that you see in the Sega Genesis Classics Colection & Genesis Mini. It's why I'm thinking of getting the Mini, coz it makes me feel like I have my ol' Genesis collection again. About the only games I had that these collections are always missing are Quackshot, Robocop versus Terminator (LOL I bought it for the tits & gore code.) & Afterburner 2.
I would've preferred Quackshot over World of Illusion. The most rare game that I had was "Wonderboy in Monster world" but even that game is in Classics collection & Genesis Mini.
Edit: Nah, the most rare game I had was that shitty Toejam & Earl shooting game that came with the Menacer. The Menacer was such a waste of fucking money. Again, I can't fucking believe my parents bought me all that shit. I know they bought it for me, coz my pops only ever played Street Fighter, Bloody Roar, Tekken & Toshinden. He hated Virtua Fighter. Killer instinct too confusing, never got into Mortal Kombat.

Hilariously, I owned about 50 snes games but only 6 of them are on SNES classic (Mario World, Street Fighter 2 Turbo, Final Fantasy 3, Kirby Super Star, Castlevania 4 & Link to the Past. I did rent & play the hell out of every single game on SNES classic back when I was a kid.)
SNES online at least has some of the rare games I owned like Breath of Fire 2.


Sega didn't really have a game that could counter both Donkey Kong Country & Killer Instinct, let alone all those other late SNeS exclusives. They had Eternal Champions but that game is a fucking joke, why would you make a first party Sega game, that requires a 6 button controller to play? LOL! I used to be mad that Sega of Japan killed Eternal Champions coz they saw it as getting in the way of Virtua Fighter's popularity in the West but at least Sega's AM2 fighters had the right idea and designed their fighters around a 3 button scheme, which is what the Genesis had by default.
Vectorman is ok, but no DKC.

It's a shame, coz during the early & mid 16 bit wars, I would easily side with Genesis over SNES, especially at my age where I can't even fucking stand playing most Jrpgs anyway, lol.
I liked them when I was a kid coz I was that exact age group that Jrpgs targeted, the angsty 11-18 year olds. By the time I was 18 I think I was already playing Dead or Alive 2 & Grand Theft Auto & a bunch of PC games like Deus Ex, Baldurs Gate, Quake etc.

Another Nintendo-lie.

Though you might perceive the “race” between them and Nintendo to have been close in the 1990’s, in truth Mario averaged anywhere between two to four times Sonic’s sales in games; a trend which Nintendo consistently maintained after the launch of the Super Nintendo.

Allegedly Mario games always sold double than what Sonic did. I'd say it's relatively scaled.
Sonic did 15 million out of 35 million owners, Mario did 20 million out of 49 million owners.
SNES had nearly 50 million owners & 20 million of them owned Mario World.

Edit: Oh wow this explains it. Hilariously, those are the 4 games (Mario World, Killer Instinct, DKC & Street Fighter 2, usually Turbo though.) damn near everyone I knew had at least a copy of.

https://forum.digitpress.com/forum/show ... mesSNES (launch) Super Mario World
SNES Killer Instinct
SNES Donkey Kong Country
SNES (1997) Yoshi's Island
SNES (UK) Street Fighter II


I'm also damn certain that the only reason why my folks actually bought me another expensive ass toy after I already asked for one a year prior was due to Street Fighter 2.

As for Genesis, most people I knew had the Sonic 1 version.
Genesis 1 (1989-1991) Altered Beast
Genesis 1 (1991-?) Sonic the Hedgehog
Genesis 2 Sonic the Hedgehog 2
Genesis 2 (Sports bundle) NFL '94
Genesis 2 Streets of Rage 2
Genesis 2 The Lion King
Genesis 2 Vectorman
Genesis 2 Sega 6-Pak
Although there were a couple who had Sonic 2 & SOR2 come with their system.
I was going to get the Altered Beast version as a kid, but seeing another commercial with Sonic had me begging to get that version instead coz that ucking Blue Hedghoe was so cool to me, lol. Weird part was, I was a hardcore fan of Mario at the time. (Even to this day I don't understand why I found Mario so appealing. My pops would always get annoyed at how the only games on NES, I ever wanted to get were Mario games.)



Although I thought Sonic was cooler than Mario, I've only ever owned Sonic 1.
I guess by the time you hit your preteens, you stopped caring about mascots coz by then I damn know for sho that I was more into Blaze Fielding, Mai Shiranui, Chun Li, Cammy's ass, Aska (TMNT Tournament Fighters) and all those fine ass bitches by the time I hit the preteens.
Strangely enough, I don't recall being teen-horny over Tyris Flair who's practically butt naked in Golden Axe 1. Course I thought she was hot, but I noticed GA more, for being a cool looking badass game. It wasn't like I intentionally pressed the start button to see her thong like I did with Mai, Aska & Chun. Yes, Chun Li does wear a thong in the SNES game, lol.
Genesis was the much more mature system (mature as in it has lots of gore & butt nekkid sluts), but I recall SNES games actually having more skin. (I know full well that Breath of Fire 2 did.) I still remember how we all laughed at Orchid's Flashing tits finisher in the SNES game coz as a kid, that would pretty much be your reaction to a hot woman flashing her big tits at you.
It ain't like when you're an adult, where you're jaded coz you see tits & sluts lusting over you all the time, so it doesn't even phase you anymore.

Another thing I found weird is that the Genesis was supposed to be the arcadey multiplayer system, but I recall by the end of the 16 bit era, that I played Pocky & Rocky 2, Final Fight 3, & Kirby Superstar with friends way more than I did the Genesis. Genesis's mp games were too old by then and the only one that we still played was SOR2. Barely anyone liked SOR3 coz it was too fucking hard. (Sor 1 had the same problem as Golden Axe 1 & 2, good but they're too old.)
That's another problem that Genesis games had during the generation, the Western version was always unbalanced & hard as fuck for no reason.


I'm rambling, I'm just saying that creatively, SEGA Genesis was Nintendo's only true rival.
Gaystation & Xbore are out there doing their own thing, making a multimedia machine so it's depressing when you realize that Switch is the only real gamers' machine. It really makes you long for the return of Sega Genesis, SNK Neo Geo & Hudson Soft Turbo Grafx 16.

When I think about how SNES eventually won, and how even a loyal Sega fag like me turned on them, I recall that it was due to how Nintendo gradually became just as edgy as Genesis was, later SNES games had just as much gore & tits as Genesis games did. On top of that, SNES had Squaresoft which completely changed the meaning of what a game was to me at the time.
Ironic how as a late 30s man, I find myself going back to my Genesis/NES roots and only wanting to play Arcade style games + Strategy games. I only like rpgs with strategy elements like the SaGa series.


If Sega were still around, I think I'd be on their system coz the kiddy crap on Switch does eventually get on my nerves. You know how fucking long I have to wait just for Metroid? I've already exhausted the slightly more mature games on Switch with Fire Emblem & Daemon X Machina.
Granted, it's not like Sega's ips ever drew a dime anyway. There's a reason why they only shill Sonic. Sega still pushes "mature" games but they do it in an all-in-one package with the Yakuza series. I personally think they should just scrap that series and make Streets of Rage some grimdark goofy shit just like Yakuza. I'd gurantee it'd sell way more than Yakuza does.
Yakuza is just one of those internet-popular games, coz every Yakuza game on PS4 gets instantly discounted to 14 - $20 3 months after it released, lol.

Streets of Rage done Yakuza style would appeal to way more people, coz way more gamers in the world have been to New York, which is where Streets of Rage is based off of. (SOR takes place in a city with a Japanese name, but it's obviously supposed to be the USA since the politicians from SOR are all Americans.)


I really hate this shit. How everyone over exaggerrates how much of a failure Sega is.
https://www.quora.com/Would-SEGA-have-t ... oles-today
I think Sega could still compete in the console space, 2 of the top 3 weren't Multimedia giants (Microsoft & Sony) invading video game territory.
People these days forget just how mainstream Sega used to be during the 90s. During the 90s, Sonic was actually more widely recognized than Mickey Mouse was. Mickey Mouse himself was practically used as the Genesis Mascot Platformer star until they eventually created Sonic to replace Alex Kid.

https://genesismini.sega.com/
This is why you see so many Mikcy games in the Gensis Mini.


For a real Sega history lesson, watch the fat bearded nerd

or the Nostalgia nerd.

Both of them point out that Sega failed due to releasing too many systems, but they also admit that there once was a time, when they were the big leagues. Sega only look small when compared Non-gaming companies like Microsoft & Sony. Nintendo was the only gaming company that was actually richer than Sega, all the way up until this year.

When you look at real gaming companies (who were established as gaming first.) who have the largest profits & revenue to work with, the top 3 are Nintendo, Activision Blizzard & EA Games. Sega used to be No. 2 until this year.

https://www.gameaboo.com/top-10-richest ... companies/
Seeing how Blizzard & EA games got up so high though (they intentionally make shit games & force bad match making which preys on the gamers' ego, who then purchase a bunch of unlocks through the EA or Blizzard store.), it's easy to see that Sega will never catch up since Sega still operates like an oldschol 16bit era company, where they waste too much time on the production of a single game that has no multiple revenue streams.
Act/Blizzard & EA Games operate under a model where each game is produced to be multiple revenue streams within a single product which is why they have so many micro-transactions.

Soyny makes a lot of bank off of Nongamers who love Soyny Movie games. Microsoft is just rich as fuck & is bleeding away money anyway, ay lmao.

[Jack]

I just found out about this game today, Ultracore.
That game just screams, SAY-GAAAH!!!! It has blood & guts everywhere & you're constantly shooting at shit, just like a typical Genesis game, lol!

Holy fuck I want to play that.
I love just how badass Genesis games have always looked & sounded.
Red Zone

Skeleton Krew

Gauntlet 4

I'm shocked that Chakan never made it in to a Genesis Classics collection. Sega owns the rights to that game.
Chakan the Forever Man

It's shit like this, Shinobi series, Streets of Rage, & Ninja Gaiden which were my early childhood.


At least Alisia Dragoon is in the Genesis Mini, even though Sega doesn't even own that game, lol. It's by Gamearts though, who used to exclusively make games on Sega systems during the 16 bit era.

Blades of Vengeance

Genesis games always felt so dark, demonic & horror-movie like. It did have Splatterhosue 3 after all, a game that punishes you by killing off your entire family just coz you suck at the game.
Splatterhouse 3 Jenny dead mang :evil:

The darkest games SNES had, didn't even get released outside of Japan, and they were faggy rpgs anyway. (Made by the same crew who made Wonderboy in Monster World, LOL!)

Everything about the Genesis was way more badass than SNES. It wasn't just their Rpgs like Phantasy Star which had way more balls than the SNES rpgs. (PS2 ends with your entire party fighting in a duel to the death vs Earthlings, :lol: .)
Even their Strategy games were edgy as fuck.
Master of Monsters

Sure SNES, had SMT, but none of the SMT games were released outside of Japan utnil Persona 1.

[Jack]

It's sad that I always specify Genesis, coz I didn't like their Saturn or Dreamcast output at all, which were also very Anime, weeb, nerdy.
Saturn was when Sega finally revealed more of their corny ass Jap influence (Just look at how fucking ugly & anime that Golden Axe fighting game looks!), and shed away their American/European Amiga vibe that their games used to have during the 16 bit era.
Dreamcast was when Sega went completely bonkers with ttheir Jappy absurdity with the likes of Space Channel 5, Seaman, & all sorts of weird goofy shit. Ironically, I think Nights would be much better received today since every single White male seems to be gay as fuck and loves Trannies.


That's what I don't like about the Nintendo Switch, aside for Metroid, they don't really have any mature games that don't have an ANIMU-weabooo stench to it.
Stuff like Daemon X Machina, Xenoblade, Fire Emblem, sure they're more mature than typical Nintendo gunk, but they're still very anime.
Metroid is the only property that Nintendo has left, which would blend in with a Genesis catalog. (Well, Xenoblade series kinda feels like a Phantasy Star game that takes place in a complete different solar system.) Marvel Ultimate Alliance 3 also kinda has that edgy Genesis vibe to it, only coz Team Ninja made it.

When you look at a Genesis game like Shinobi, Golden Axe or Streets of Rage, they didn't look anime at all, even when you see the Japanese covers.
I loved Genesis coz everything they did was just so edgy & dark. They were the right kind of edgy. Xbox 360 was fairly edgy but not in a cool Gothic way like the Genesis was. Genesis's library looked like a catalog filled with games that were chock full with Horror-visual design.
360 just had marines cussing a lot & gunned down aliens.

When I was a kid, games like the ones I posted vids of were the type of games that I remember most of us playing and 1st party stuff like Streets of Rage, Beyond Oasis, Light Crusader, Shinobi & Golden Axe blended in.
Shit, I remember some of us playing the hell out of Shadowrun, coz the Genesis version really felt more mature than the typical game from that era. Jurassic Park & Xmen 1 & 2 got a ton of play from peeps I knew.

Yeah we all did eventually move on over to SNES & Playstation (or Saturn, yeah like only one person had a Saturn lol) during the final parts of the 16 bit era but that was primarily due to fighting games. (MK3, Killier Instinct, ) Damn near everyone I knew was a Street Fighter 2 master, as well as myself since I was living in California in 96,97 which were the final years of the 16 bit era.
By that time, we were all playing MK3, Tekken 1 & 2, Xmen vs Street Fighter & Mace. (I miss baddass fighters like Mace. I remember a gang fight happened once back in Vegas during a round of Mace, lol. Lead to a bunch of a bloody teen-males LOL!)


Internet is a funny place, where damn near everything is fake news. The internet would lead you to believe that Super Nintendo were extremely dominant all throughout the 90s when I strictly recall the SNES being labeled as a kiddy toy and the kids from my era actually did label the SNES as that system for kids.
It shows when you just look at how edgy the average Genesis game looked, lol.
Robocop versus Terminator Blowing up big titty bitches into gore giblets.

That is my shit right there, damn! When Robocop sees a hot big boob,big ass Blonde slut, he just shoots her & blows her up into pieces, LOL!
That's the genesis mang. Genesis is so hardcore. Look at that framerate, damn that shit is fast. 60 fps, eons before gamers ever gave a shit about 60 fps.

When I was kid, most the peeps I knew only played Mario,Sonic, Action (This includes Fighting, beat em up, chumps, anything that has action in it.) & sports games. I was like the only one who played RPGS, but even then I only got into Jrpgs by accident coz I rented Final Fantasy 2 as a joke simply coz it was the only game left that I hadn't rented yet. I thought it looked like crap but I was hooked on to that game for an entire month.
Final Faggotry 2 actually sucked dick, but it was so different from everything else that I played at the time which is why I became a hardcore Story fag from the late 16 bit era all the way up to PS2 era when I finally realized just how shitty Jrpgs are so I eventually reverted back to my kiddy, NES/Genesis self.
The two systems that I played when I was like 5-8 yrs old.

I'm only a loyal Nintenfag right now coz they're the closest thing to Sega in the modern era. Funny how a decade ago it used to be Xbox360 who were like a spirtual Sega successor, only for Microshit to turn into a bunch of dick sucking LGBT faggots.

[wiregrind]

I heard on a podcast that the Dreamcast had twice the VRAM of the PS2, that's why Dreamcast games have such sharp textures. I believe if the dreamcast played saturn games and had DVD playback it could have survived in the PS2 generation, Sony's deal of "all ps1 games+ movies+ ps2 games" was too crazy to compete with. But in hindsight it's such a stupid thing, Dreamcast developers were making amazing stuff like Rez, Power Stone, JSR, Shenmue, it was like one of the most creative times for Sega, but they couldn't compete with a DVD player. I think it's stupid, but whatever right.
These days the only stuff Sega is doing in-house is Yakuza, I think. The guy who directs Yakuza is the same guy who directed Monkey Ball 1 right? Toshihiro Nagoshi.
I guess it's hard to find a mass-appeal theme to put millions of dollars for a PS4-quality game, even PS3/Switch quality is probably way too expensive. So they have to play it safe with something super popular like Yakuza. I like Yakuza games, but I would like Sega to do something like the Capcom Five, something to produce new IPs and be creative. Out of that thing we got RE4, Viewtiful Joe, and Killer7. But maybe the budget required for the kind of graphics standards that games have nowadays makes it impossible. Personally I don't give a shit about graphics, composite on a CRT looks fine to me, high resolutions and budgets are putting too high stakes and preventing risk taking. The only crazy developers doing that sort of thing these days is Platinum Games, with Bayonetta, Vanquish, Nier, and Astral Chain.

[Jack]

The dvd bit doesn't surprise me one bit coz when I was on PS4, half of the people in my friend's list didn't even play video games. They just used it to watch Netflix & Youtube.

Dreamcast developers were making amazing stuff like Rez, Power Stone, JSR, Shenmue, it was like one of the most creative times for Sega, but they couldn't compete with a DVD player.

Their creativity was just too weird imo. Genesis was so cool to people coz of their games. They had stuff that was straight to the point like Streets of Rage, Golden Axe, & Shinobi. Even Phantasy Star 4 came off badass as hell.

How do you market something like Seaman or Nights into Dreams?
Even Shenmue is a hard sell when it shouldn't have been, considering how yuge its budget was. The nimrods who were running Sega at the time were just way too nationalistic (They were too proud of themselves, letting Sega of America flounder in failure when it was Sega of Japan who forced SOA to develop the 32x without even telling them about the Saturn.), and didn't care about what would've sold outside of Japan. The irony is that Shenmue flopped big time in Japan, all three times :lol: :lol: .
Shenmue's biggest audience is actually the USA, but it's still very niche.

When I look at the Genesis era, compared to the 2 or 3 eras that came after the Genesis, what I see is an increased dose of Japanese-weirdness, and far less of the American badass attitude that the Genesis had. (To be fair, modern 2020 USA itself is also lacking in badass 70s- early 2000s Murican Attitude. :lol: :lol: )

Jet Set Radio was like the only good idea they had, but then 2 decades later Nintendo just swoops in and does their own take on Jet Set's attitude with Spla-toon, except Nintendo did everything in-house whereas Sega used licensed music.

I guess it's hard to find a mass-appeal theme to put millions of dollars for a PS4-quality game, even PS3/Switch quality is probably way too expensive.

You make it sound as though Sega were in financial trouble. They're still the 4rth richest gaming company after the big 3, Nintendo, Soyny, & Microshit.
https://meliorgames.com/game-developmen ... pers-2019/
Sega actually makes more money now that they do nothing but publish American games.
What happened with Sega is that they realized they make far more profits selling other peoples' games than they do with their own so all they're doing is maximizing their profits by putting in the least amount of work.
Binary Domain was like the last time that they actually invested money in a Triple AAA product, but it flopped big time.
BD was the game that proved to me that the Yakuza team actually knows how to make games, they just choose not to bother most of the time since the Yakuza series requires much less work than Binary Domain did. Binary Domain had modernized physics & envirnmental effects.
Meanwhile, Yakuza 6 & 7 still feel & look a generation behind :lol:

Besides, how hard could it be for Sega to find a mass appeal theme? They have Golden Axe, turn that into a Witcher style Action rpg and hire a fantasy writer to write the plot. Streets of Rage? Turn that into a GTA style beat em up game where you play as ex cops (Axel, Adam & Blaze) who take the law into their own hands. Shinobi? Turn that into a Dark Souls-(well no, it's too late for that. Nioh & From's Ninja game already corner that market.)

All of this crap writes itself. It'd be easy to turn every Sega retro franchise into a modern triple A game, but they don't want to since they already lost a lot of money from Anarchy Reigns & Binary Domain. Well actually they lost money from every Platinum game, lol.
Platinum's only true hits are Nier Automata & Astral Chain with Astral Chain prob being their biggest success since it just came out and it's already almost at Nier's sells numbers while only being released on the Switch.


The problem is that they don't care coz they make way more money off of publishing Total War than they ever did from the Saturn or Dreamcast. That's something that a lot of people don't get.
They didn't really profit from either system and were always bleeding money from them. Saturn was popular in Japan, and only in Japan. I don't blame it coz the Saturn library sucks.
They're like the opposite of Nintendo 64. N64 had nothing but Western games, Saturn had nothing but Japanese games. PSX1 had everything.

Personally I don't give a shit about graphics, composite on a CRT looks fine to me, high resolutions and budgets are putting too high stakes and preventing risk taking. The only crazy developers doing that sort of thing these days is Platinum Games, with Bayonetta, Vanquish, Nier, and Astral Chain.

Platinum has Nintendo & Tencent funding them, two of the richest game companies in the world. (Tencent is actually the richest I think, but they exist outside of the gaming spectrum.)
I personally think that Nintendo takes way more risks. How the hell would anyone expect Spla-toon, Fire Emblem or Xenoblade to sell over 1 million? Nintendo did, and all 3 do sell over a million units.

I'm amazed by Xenoblade, coz it reminds me of a Gamearts rpg from the 90s, and it's weird seeing such a big budget AAA production of that caliber since most Triple AAA produce wouldn't be anywhere near as strange, controversial as Xenoblade is. You can't even describe the setting in one sentence coz the setting itself is just weird. Only stuff like Bloodborne gets as weird as the type of stuff that Nintendo produces

These days the only stuff Sega is doing in-house is Yakuza, I think. The guy who directs Yakuza is the same guy who directed Monkey Ball 1 right? Toshihiro Nagoshi.

They already spend millions of dollars on Yakuza anyway. The games may look like cheap PS3 shit, but that's coz all of their budget goes into hiring actors & celebs who are mainstream popular in Japan. The most famous (in Japan) celeb that they've hired is Takuya Kimura, who was the main character from Judgment.

(To this day, I'll never understand what's so handsome about that guy, AYY LMAO! I hated him even when I was a kid in Japan.)
Getting Takuya, is like the American equivalent of getting Tom Cruise to star in your vidya game.
It's amusing to me how they'll even hire pornstars who were mainstream popular at the time like Anri Okita.
.

[Krizzx]

The Saturn cost to much in the west and its library was gutted in the west thanks to guy SEGA chose to heading believing that Americans didn't want RPGs and 2D games which were what the Saturn excelled at.

I also love sega because of its originality and creativity. The reason I stuck with Nintendo afterward is because they were the closest to being as creative and original as SEGA. SEGA has a really bad business sense. and it didn't help that SEGA of America would alter or just straight not release games because they didn't feeling it catered to mainstream white America. Sonic CD had almost its entire OST except the chiptune tracks that coudn't just be replaced without reprogramming and games like Rent A Hero with its old school hiphop beat music just never saw the light of day. SEGA musciscians seemed to be big into hiphop, techno, jazz and eletronica and SEGA of America would try to eliminate any trace of it.






Also a lot of games with more story depth were never brought over to the U.S. and many of the ones that were had the stories gutted like the Hokuto No Ken game when it was turned into Last Battle, Assault Suit Leynos when it was turned into Target Earth or Streets of Rage 3. They would white wash or butcher anything with an anime tinge or just not release which cost us a lot of games on the Genesis, Saturn and Dreamcast. Games I would have loved to buy like Starcruiser, Rent-A-Hero on the Genesis, Quo Vadis and , and Despiria and the Rent-A-Hero remake on the Dreamcast. I would have said Napple Tale, but that's been fan translated now. Speaking of which, I need to go get it and playing. I've been too busy on Sakura Taisen.

A lot of shit SEGA did was ahead of its time. Before Kinect, there was the activator which was complete shit but sill intuitive. Before the Wii U gamepad they have the VMU. Before the the Wii Mote, Sega had the bass fishing controller and the Samba De Amigo maracas. SEGA was the first to push online multiplayer on consoles. Problem with being first is that you have little to work with and you have to be the one to iron out all the kinks which they never could. They would constantly try out new things, but almost all of theme failed. I still failed. Constantly trying to update existing hardware was a bad idea.




The problem with the addons was shared with the Saturn. Too expensive. Saturn cost $500 where the PS1 cost $300 and the N64 $250. I wanted a Saturn but there was no way we could afford that.

I still feel the six button layout was the best face button design of any controller. It's why the N64 controller is still my favorite Nintendo controler. It has the A,B and 4 Cs lined up like a 6 button.

[Jack]

I still feel the six button layout was the best face button design of any controller.

Damn right. Every button is neatly placed for ease of access. My fave controller are the modern Saturn style controls that have two or four shoulder buttons. All that's missing are two analogs.

The Saturn cost to much in the west and its library was gutted in the west thanks to guy SEGA chose to heading believing that Americans didn't want RPGs and 2D games which were what the Saturn excelled at.

Name me another era when Sega's hardware actually excelled worldwide? The only time they ever did was the Genesis and that was due to Sega of America. Sega of America were the ones who originally came up with the idea to make Sonic the mascot of Sega. Genesis wasn't even popular in Japan and it shows with how weird their MegaDrive line up is, half of the games are trash.

Even over 2 decades after the Saturn has been released with us having access to most of the Japanese library online, I don't really think Saturn had much of anything of worth. Their games were just too damn Japanese, and would've only appealed to Japanese.
Nobody is going to want to play Devil Summoner coz Westerners at the time hated all first person rpgs, same reason why Dragon Quest 7 flopped.

About the only real system sellers they had that could've made the difference were Capcom's fighting games & home versions of Dungeons & Dragons. In the other forum, I was asking about what games Saturn had so I can emulate them but the only game they really had that's unique to Saturn that is good is Dragon Force. Sakura Taisen, Baroque, none of that stuff would've made a difference in the West.
Grandia was the only left-in-Japan game that had a chance, but only had it been released in the West before Final Fantasy 7. FF7 completely changed the scene after it arrived, but Grandia would've done good when going up against Wild Arms, Beyond the Beyond, Persona 1 & Suikoden 1.

What killed the Saturn is that Japan didn't do a proper follow up to Sonic, Shinobi, Golden Axe or Streets of Rage, especiallys SOR & Sonic. From what I recall it was Sega of Japan who repeatedly denied any chances for SOR to get a sequel coz SOJ didn't know what SOR was, which is funny to me coz Streets of Rage 1 & 2 both sold over a million games in the USA. That's actually the problem though, SOJ of that era was extremely jealous of SOA, and they purposely tried to hijack them, forcing SOA to try and turn shit into gold. Of course nobody could've done with what was given to SOA during 96 - 98. No one on Earth could've saved 32x, not when Sega of Japan were already sneakily working on Sega Saturn just to make SOA look bad. Sega of Japan of the 90s - early 2000s were some of the dumbest motherfuckers alive.

The Sega of Today are managed by people who have nothing to do with the Saturn/Dreamcast era coz most of those guys are dead (Hayao Nakayama is still alive though, and still being a fucking failure like he always was.) and new management took over after the Dreamcast fell & Sammy merge which led to the eventual acquisition of Atlus. (For some reason, everyone forgets that Sega owns Atlus now.)

Yes, Sega of America's management was also shit but they were the lesser evil when compared to Japan, who honestly came off as if they lived inside their own bubble. Damn near every game that SOJ made during that era is just weird Japanese shit, that even most Japanese people didn't care for. :lol: :lol:
I'm still laughing that they thought Nights was going to be the next Sonic when anyone could tell it wouldn't coz it's just weird.

I also love sega because of its originality and creativity. The reason I stuck with Nintendo afterward is because they were the closest to being as creative and original as SEGA. SEGA has a really bad business sense. and it didn't help that SEGA of America would alter or just straight not release games because they didn't feeling it catered to mainstream white America.

Sega of America were right most of the time, considering that the Genesis was the system which was owned by most of common America. SNES was more of the hardcore gamers' (AKA nerd) machine. I can't find the list but I recall seeing a Top 50 best selling games on Genesis and damn near the entire top 20 were filled with Madden & NBA games :lol: :lol:
Sonic, Xmen & Streets of Rage 1 & 2 were like the only Sega first party games that made it into the over 1 million sold mark
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_b ... ideo_games
http://www.vgchartz.com/platform/16/sega-genesis/
I don't really like the VGchartz link coz they do a bad job keeping a tally of Genesis software sells, but at least they do provide the number for Streets of rage 2 which most other sites ignore. (Actually they don't ignore it, it's just that most Madden games sold over 5 million units so they bump off SOR1 & 2.)

Hell their own site has an article about how Switch sold over 52 million units yet their front page says that Switch only sold 50 million. Their total switch number actually keeps going down coz it was at 51 million two days ago lol. A lot of faggot ass gamers are getting butt hurt that Switch is so succesful. Hillarious to me, coz Nintendo is the only reason I'm still spending over 1000s of dollars every two months on video toys. Nintendo makes good shit.

[Jack]

Sonic CD had almost its entire OST except the chiptune tracks that coudn't just be replaced without reprogramming and games like Rent A Hero with its old school hiphop beat music just never saw the light of day. SEGA musciscians seemed to be big into hiphop, techno, jazz and eletronica and SEGA of America would try to eliminate any trace of it.

I don't think that's true. Why did Xmen 2 have badass dance music?

That was a late era Genesis SOA exclusive.
Actually all of the Sega of America's games had some form of hip hop, techno or jazz. Even Ecco the Dolphin & Warriors of Eternal Sun.


After all of these years, I still think WOES is one of the best attempts at a D&D game. That entire game was atmospheric as hell.

Eternal Champions


Sega of Japan is fucking stupid for killing off EC, just coz they didn't want it competing with Virtua Fighter.
It's crazy to me just how mainstream popular Eternal Champions was, only for SOJ to kill it off simply coz they didn't make it.
VF was only slightly popular in the USA due to its high technology. Nobody outside of Japan gave a shit about VF's setting or characters.
I actually don't even know why it was popular in Japan. When I was in Japan, we were all playing Turd Strike & Tekken 4.

Without Sega of America's Kalinske's output, the Genesis wouldn't have nearly as many classics as it had. Even Michael Jackson's Moonwalker was made by Sega and untouched by SOA. All of this shit was pre-Bernie though.

That Bernie Stolar motherfucker was grade A stupid. He's the main reason why Sonic CD and most other games had their posts changed, coz he himself did not like any form of dance music for not being complex enough.
https://segaretro.org/Bernie_Stolar
Still, it's Sega of Japan's fault for eventually pushing out Tom Kalinske when they owed nearly all of their universal success to Tom. He was the reason why during the 90s, Sonic was actually more known than Nintendo's Mario & Disney's Mickey Mouse.
Even to this day, Sege of Japan can't fucking figure out why Sonic was so popular as evidenced by how they keep dicking around with his series to the point that their best received game (Sonic Mania) was yet again, made by a bunch of Americans, lol!

Tom Kalinske was the true brains of Sega and is the real reason why the Genesis was a worldwide success outside of Japan.
Sega is originally an American Arcade-gaming company, made by American Marines.
So for me, Sega was always at its best when they had Americans at the helm of their projects.

Sega never had true geniuses like Satoru Iwata who was a Game developer, Gamer, and Business man all rolled into one.
Yuji Naka is basically Sega's Hideo Kojima (Useless fuck, 1 trick ponies who think too highly of themselves.) & Yu Suzuki is, well he gets compared to Shigeru Miyamoto but I don't even think he's comparable to Sakurai. (Sakurai is prob the third most genius mind who used to work for Nintendo.)
Suzuki is more like a software version of Gumpei Yokoi. He had a lot of original ideas and they both excelled at technology, but eventually got pushed out due to colossal failures. (Virtual Boy, Shenmue 1 & 2) At least Suzuki didn't get killed by a Nintendo-Yakuza hit like Yokoi did :lol: .

As for Rent a Hero, that game is just shit. Compare it to Earthbound/Mother, which would you rather play? Even if you think Rent a Hero is far more creative & unique (I don't.), it still plays nowhere near as good as Earthbound does.

King Colussus is like one of the only Genesis rpgs that did get left in Japan. I own a Super Retrocade so I have folders of the entire romset of the Genesis, which to my surprise is like only 800 games. Another thing that shocked me is that we got nearly all of Genesis's rpg output released to the West. It's really only the Strategy games that stayed in Japan.

Also a lot of games with more story depth were never brought over to the U.S. and many of the ones that were had the stories gutted like the Hokuto No Ken game when it was turned into Last Battle,

The original Hokuto game is extremely violent, so I can't really blame them for that. Had they done that, there would've been a controversy as huge as Mortal Kombat. (Although that worked in MK's favor.)
90s had insane Christians who were like that era's SJWs. I actually prefer them over SJWs though, since they were just anti sex & gore and anything that they felt disrespected Jeeezzus.
SJWs seems to hate fun all together, and constantly make up new shit that you're not allowed to do coz it hurts their feelings.

They would white wash or butcher anything with an anime tinge or just not release which cost us a lot of games on the Genesis, Saturn and Dreamcast.

I honestly prefer the American localizations for the most part. Langrisser looks way cooler as Warsong. Sabra is way more awesome as a badass barbarian amazon warrior, over the lollita Jailbait that she is in Japan.
I also prefer Alisa Dragoon as a Barbarian warrior, over being yet again another lame ass lollita jailbait girl.

Saturn just had shit games period. Dreamcast's problem is that it died way before most of those games could get localized.
PSX eventually received most of the Japanese games that Saturn had. Nintendo 64 is where most of the Genesis audience actually went, which is hillarious :lol: :lol: :roll:

Now SOR3, I'll never understand why the fuck that game was stripped of all of its ghetto-ness when it's in the fucking name of the game, Streets or Rage or Bare Knuckle. I always play the Japanese version of SOR3 coz it makes no sense to me that a group of hardened gangsters
would be hanging around with hot sluts, who actually wear clothes. The fuck is that shit!? :twisted: :evil: :evil:

What I find hilarious is how the gay tranny guy, Ash was banned in the USA simply coz Christians hate & want to burn gays to death.
Then you get to 2020 Murica, Ash would still be banned coz its 'bigoted' to beat up a half naked faggot who screams like a bitch.
You just get no in between with the AmeriTards.

Streets of Rage 3 is prob the one game where I could agree with you that they were purposely retooling every game to match the White American demographic. The SOR3 English plot makes no fucking sense. The Japan version actually did make sense, but it was far more political & revolved around terrorism which is why the plot was changed to ressemble some shitty American Saturday morning cartoon plot.
Bare Knuckle 3 actually got into nitty gritty about who actually controls & operates American Street Gangs. That's why the bad ending takes place at the fucking White House. It would've been awesome to get that plot while I was growing up, instead we got that nonsensical robots shit which didn't even make sense to me as a kid.


I don't really think it's true that Sega of America wanted to sanitize everything for White Murica, coz Nintendo of America of that era were the exact prototype of Middle Class America (& actually they still are. When ever I go to a game store, and search the Switch game section. All I ever see are White people, sometimes even grown up Alpha male Chad-looking sons hanging around with their mommies to buy the latest Zelda or Mario.)
All of Nintendo's games during the early 90s were specifically tailored to appeal to White boys or at least, not offend White mommys so much.
Sega Genesis (of America) rose to popularity coz they were counter culture & rebellious.

It was only when Nintendo started to Play it Loud that they eventually shed some of their White boy appeal, to try and appeal to everyone with the likes of Killer Instinct & Donkey Kong Country. That's what amuses me about Nintendo, they can actually out Sega, Sega whenever they want. They just choose not to most of the time.

Ironically Sega of Japan never really had that rebellious counter-culture spirit, at least not as a company motto. Some of their games such as Jet Set Radio did evoke counter culture and actually got a lot of Americans introduced to Japanese hip hop.
Sega's main in house franchise, Yakuza is also nothing but Japanese counter culture, and revolves around hidden societies that exist parralel to Japan's mainstream society. I'm still fucking shocked they got Takuya Kimura, coz he's the definition of mainstream square.
Beat Takeshi is both mainstream & underground, so he doesn't shock me much.

A lot of shit SEGA did was ahead of its time. Before Kinect, there was the activator which was complete shit but sill intuitive. Before the Wii U gamepad they have the VMU. Before the the Wii Mote, Sega had the bass fishing controller and the Samba De Amigo maracas. SEGA was the first to push online multiplayer on consoles. Problem with being first is that you have little to work with and you have to be the one to iron out all the kinks which they never could. They would constantly try out new things, but almost all of theme failed.

Sega were actually the first to do the online gaming thing, which is a shame that it didn't finally become the standard until Microshit backstabbed Sega and pretty much stole Sega Online's original tech after they let Sega die. (They didn't really steal it, Microshit helped develop it.)
I wonder what it was like to be in the Gaming biz at that time, laughing at fucking morons like Bernie Stolar, Hayao Nakayama & Isao Okawa.
I don't even know who was the dumbest of the 3, but Okawa makes me laugh coz he actually begged on his knees for Microsoft to save them.
It's like how the fuck do you eventually become the President of a company that's as big as Sega but be completely naive to the true nature of business relationships which are only favorable to you so long as mutal benefits are gained?

Sega is actually way bigger & richer now than when they were a hardware developer but that's coz they just have a bunch of faceless business suits who only care about making profit margins meet and they do that at the price of gutting their console market since it was the least profitable.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hajime_Satomi
https://segaretro.org/Haruki_Satomi
At least this Haruki guy is good at picking out projects that have the potentional to make lots of money while also pleasing the gaming audience. Damn near every game he's worked on is good except for Sonic Forces & Sonic Boom Boom. I had no idea he did 7th Dragon CODE VFD which was edgy as hell due to Rieko. The main bad guy is actually modeled after her.
https://seventhdragon3.fandom.com/wiki/Allie


Sega's ultimate problem during the late Genesis-Dreamcast era, is that they had no real business men. (Aside for the one guy who made them a worldwide success, Tom Kalinske.) Ironically, that's Sega's problem right now, all they have are business men.
Some of their heavy hitters such as Rieko Kodma & Nagoshi are still with Sega, and it shows, coz those are the only two who still make original Sega produce.
I'm still waiting for Rieko's next game. When the fuck will she make one? Her 7th Dragon series was a big success in Japan (but flopped in the USA) and damn near everything she does as a Producer & Director is Grade A Platinum-Daimond tier produce that deserves to be bought out by Nintendo. (Nintendo already own the original Sega Shining Force devs which is why the modern Shining games by Sega are trash.)
Honestly if she weren't one of Sega's only real in-house workers left, I think Nintendo would've nabbed her already coz Xenoblade 2 reminds me of what a modern Phantast Star or Skies of Arcadia would look like.

[Krizzx]

X-men 2 and Ecco weren't influenced by SEGA's localization team.

I had Eternal Champions. It had a great story and design for what it was, even though the final boss fight was more broken than an SNK boss. I never got to play the seque, and Its a shame the sequel never got a re release as with most SEGA CD games. The Shadow only spin-off game was horrible. I didn't think SEGA of Japan killed it off. I thought it was the abyssmal performance of the two followup games.

King of Colossus wasn't the only RPG we didn't get for the genesis. We also didn't get the first two Legend of Heroes games. There was a Yuyu Hakusho RPG that was detailed as fuck and this RPG Golfing game that was like Golf Story only 20 years before it was released(LOL, sega did Golf Story first).





I disagree that the Saturn library was shit. the AMERICAN Saturn library was shit, and for reasons I previously mentioned. The Japanese Saturn library was awesome.




Also, another reason that Saturn gaming didn't do so well is that they were hard to make. It had 2 CPUs that weren't in sync with each other that you had to program individually to use it. Most devs simply didn't. This lead to a lot of the Saturns power never being used outside of in house devs and specialists like Treasure and the people who made Panzer Dragoon.

There is also the huge library of Japan only Saturn RPGs and detailed Text Adventure games/VNs. If I ever finish learning how to read Japanese at a competent level, the first thing I'm going to do is tackle the Saturn RPG library.

Ironically Sega of Japan never really had that rebellious counter-culture spirit, at least not as a company motto. Some of their games such as Jet Set Radio did evoke counter culture and actually got a lot of Americans introduced to Japanese hip hop.
Sega's main in house franchise, Yakuza is also nothing but Japanese counter culture, and revolves around hidden societies that exist parralel to Japan's mainstream society. I'm still fucking shocked they got Takuya Kimura, coz he's the definition of mainstream square.
Beat Takeshi is both mainstream & underground, so he doesn't shock me much.

Honestly, I always felt that there was this HUGE disconnected between the people who ran SEGA and the people who made products for them. Like they didn't match up and the corporate side was always trying to market to people completely different demographic than those who actually liked the types of products they released. SEGA always felt too corporate on the business end, like they never took their actual audience into consideration when making any decisions. That's the critical area where they differed from Nintendo.

SEGA's games always seemed to appeal more to subcultures, like this Japanese game I wanted to play called Roommania # 203 which a dev made because she was into watching webcam feeds of people doing stuff back when that was popular back in the late 90's and early 2000s. The games is essentially a parody of them. Some of the people she would watch she thought were just living crappy lives, and she wanted the ability to tell them to go do this or that to make things more interesting. So a game of you watching someone do everyday crap in their room and trying to influence them to make their life better was born.



Iwata was a one of a kind. It always urked me back during the Wii U life where people were constantly chanting, "FIRE IWATA!," "FIRE MIYAMOTA,". The Wii U did bad for a number of reasonly, namely the bad marketing, a bad start, and the subsequent lack of games. If not for Iwata, things would have gone way worse for Nintendo in that time. The idea wasn't bad. It was just released at the wrong place in the wrong time. Way too late for them to wow people with touchscreen gaming. It was meant to be a step up from the NDS, but people just bashed it as a trying to get in on the tablet market when it was never meant to be or compete with tablets. But then they bashed him for the Wii and even when it was a hit.

I miss the old SEGA/Nintendo dynamic. There was actual purpose to buying multiple consoles in that era. Each company offered content that catered to entirely different interests. Sony really skewed the industry with their money hatting catering to the lowest common denominator.

[wiregrind]

Their creativity was just too weird imo. Genesis was so cool to people coz of their games. They had stuff that was straight to the point like Streets of Rage, Golden Axe, & Shinobi. Even Phantasy Star 4 came off badass as hell.
How do you market something like Seaman or Nights into Dreams?
Even Shenmue is a hard sell when it shouldn't have been, considering how yuge its budget was.

This is exactly right. They were confused as fuck about who they wanted their audience to be. In a documentary on youtube where some guy interviews many Dreamcast developers you can see this dude from Crazy Taxi dev team talking about a target audience that he could only describe with a hand gesture. You can sort of imagine what he's trying to say with his hands but, not being able to describe it with words says a lot I think.
Later in the documentary some guy from Treasure games who worked on Ikaruga talks, so basically this guy is a badass just for having worked on Ikaruga, and he had some of the most interesting things anyone in the industry could say about the dreamcast:



"Mega Drive Spirit" I think he's right, Sega used to be cool to the hardcore people already, but then they wanted to look cool to the rest of the world and failed. Shenmue being popular in america wasn't worth the budget, and the Saturn being only popular in japan with VNs and JRPGs wasn't enough. So unless the software nails the entire world from east to west it's destined to lose money. If the budget is a problem I'd rather have lesser graphics and music in order to have gameplay that's unusual and interesting. Today movie-like game productions aren't interesting, cost too much, and play it as safe as they possibly can. I wish stuff like Daemon X Machina was successful, good gameplay with high budget, and the story is a quick visual novel UI with minimal budget. I think it's the closest you can get to the Mega Drive Spirit that Treasure-guy talks about.