I don't know anything about CJ's ban, but I think criticizing someone for working for the police isn't the way to go if you look into a class conscious stance. He isn't a politician who has the power to change the system and doesn't do anything. He isn't a CEO with enough money to bend laws into his knees. He is a worker, a cog in the system of capilitalism just like me and you. While I truly understand where you are coming from in regards to how the current security system is inherently flawed, I do think judging everyone who works in any kind of job related to the police is really reductive.SAVETHEPAST wrote: ↑Sun Mar 05, 2023 4:55 pm CJ you're a fascist, they banned you from ResetEra for a reason and no amount of backpedaling is going to change the fact you WORK FOR THE POLICE. How the fuck can you call yourself a leftist? You're no different from Xed or that other creep.
I think being against the way the state (and the capitalists) use the police to oppress the proletariat is a very fair and reasonable judgement. However, I don't think it's fair to just disregard someone as a human being because they found a job in the police, because the issue itself is systemic. It's not about the one person who has a regular, low paying job in a department. It's about the ones who actually hold power and weaponize the police against us.
Please, don't misrepresent what I said. I do think that scene is horrible for the same exact reason as you do, it's unacceptable considering nowadays' standards. I don't think it's cool at all.SAVETHEPAST wrote: ↑Sun Mar 05, 2023 4:55 pm There's no one who's ever wanted to hijack Suda's work more than you freaks, great job getting people to join who think arbitrary murder of POC in NMH2 is cool, as always all you've ever done is spread misinformation and smear Suda is a fascist.
The issue I have with it is that... media in the 2000s as a whole was full of problematic things. Killer7's "ALL WOMEN ARE THE SAME" scene is problematic. God Hand had stereotyped muscular gay men as a bossfight, and the entire joke was the fact they were gay. No More Heroes 1 made you fight a seminude woman to death in a beach. Even western videogames ended up showing problematic aspects to them, like the entirety of Bioshock Infinite and the way it deals with POC. I'm fine, just like I stated in my post, with criticism related to that scene. Let me word it even better: I would support any kind of criticism like this. But let's not forget that this is a 2000s game, such shitty things are a product of its era and you'll find examples of that even in mainstream releases of the time.
Besides that, I also dislike how people pretend that the scene "has no purpose", when the idea is exactly to show how Travis (and other killers like Nathan) disregard the collateral damage of their harmful behavior. It has a purpose in the overall game script's structure. No wonder the game later confronts Travis about what he is doing, the idea IS to show how Travis and Nathan can be self centered assholes who innocent people to achieve their goals, it's meant to be uncomfortable and exaggerated. I do think it was a really bad call to use one of the only bosses with afro-american music inspired design to illustrate this, but I do think it was more of an accidental choice than some kind of racist statement. Still, I do think that, if you put into perspective that it's a game released more than 10 years ago, made by Japanese devs that were basically inspired by western tropes, it makes sense that it would feature such offensive content. It's as if people were picking movies like Gone with the Wind and felt surprised that it had, in social terms, a lot of shitty things. Like... It's from another era man.
And most Suda51 games do fit into this category frequently too. Kusabi didn't really need to throw the f slur in The Silver Case. The 25th Ward had a rape joke in the turn-based segment. I'm not forgetting that Suda was indeed able to portray trans people in a very nuanced and well written manner in 25th Ward, and I think they were really progressive in terms of narrative for their time. Still, I do feel his games always touched a lot of very dangerous topics, which causes slip ups such as the ones I mentioned before. And this happens especially due to the fact they were from the 2000s, people weren't really that conscious back then. Just look a how videogame media used to behave, some JRPGs suffered from borderline racist comments due to their cultural attachment to some traditionally Japanese characteristics.
It should also be stated that consuming problematic media or enjoying problematic media doesn't mean shit. In terms of message and interpretation, I can enjoy a piece of media for the things I like and look critically into the problematic aspects. In terms of supporting shitty people, I think Grasshopper went through a lot of transformations and I don't think they would do something like that again nowadays. I can just enjoy NMH2's OST, action and themes without necessarily enjoying that specific scene.
Hope it's a bit more clear for you right now. I do not have issues with criticizing a specific NMH2 scene, I have issues with people trying to shit on a game. as if it was deliberately evil, for problematic things that aren't exclusive to it at all. For things that are present in most of the old Suda games, which they turn a blind eye on.
If nobody cared that much, you wouldn't be posting in his thread at all. I'm glad to have a place where I can publicly discuss Suda a bit more seriously. I also enjoy the forum format since it allows us to archive material and discussions a lot better than Discords and such. Please, don't project your drama related to individual people into me or any other new member. I don't think it's hard to understand why a portion of the audience would want to avoid a lot of places of the current GHM fandom and post in here instead.SAVETHEPAST wrote: ↑Sun Mar 05, 2023 4:55 pm No one cares about this irrelevant site and no amount of spamming will make anyone care. Everyone with a brain has grown up and moved beyond this edgelord shit you guys are pathetically trying to keep alive.
To anyone here that's unfamiliar with these people, just leave. Don't let them act like they control this shit.