I don't really participate much in fan communities, but I think that people should be able to share whatever they like and that criticism should be a welcome thing that leads to improvement.
Yeah that's not how fan communities work at all. You're a normal person (I mean this as a compliment) so it might surprise you to learn that to be a "fan" of something on the internet just means to gatekeep others while collecting factoids and media to use as "social credit" on twitter in order to accumulate "clout" with "influencers".
Everyone who puts out stuff for free and in public gets "cancelled" from said communities (case in point this guy who took the time to translate KiD only to get shit on, or whoever "leaked" the SotC beta that was being bargained for youtube clout instead of being released to the public, that guy got treated like the new joseph mengele).
The end result of this is that nothing ever gets done because, as it turns out, the people who have the "correct opinions" about every single issue are few and far between. CJ Iwakura "distanced himself" from a staff member who had been working on the P2EP translation hack just because he was russian (which by the "old" definition of the term would make him a racist) and "somehow" said translation got finished pretty quickly by someone else.
He even had the gall to bitch about not being "forewarned" lol, as if he owned the IP or something.
Hilariously, Cj also got "cancelled" by the rest of the suda51 "fan community" for thinking that having a police force in his country is a good thing. I am told he now acts as if he and I are friends on his podcast even though he ran a discord server where I was smeared as a national socialist pedophile serial killer for years. (When it was convenient for him to sanction such behavior.)
This is unfortunately the only kind of person you seem to run into on the internet nowadays. It's not really the realm of hobbyists anymore, just people who latch on to whatever they can find to use it as fuel for what they consider to be a "career". Everything you see on the website now I either found myself or came across through people who are so fed up with the average internet interaction that they only communicate through private emails. One guy even got an account here but he never posted, he's pretty cool though he's donating all sorts of stuff and wants to help us cover more artists later down the line
This is not a new phoenomena at all, the greatest part of humanity was always consumed by a low-testosterone induced insecurity complex which forbid them from enjoying anything at face value, and forced them to utilize everything they came across as social credit in order to elicit the attentions of others. It's just that until a decade or so ago, the internet was less accessible so that kind of "normie" behavior was mostly left out. Nowadays, the whole hashtag & likes culture caters specifically to it, so there's really no escape lol.
And while there can certainly be incorrect translations, that doesn't mean that there is only one correct way. Everyone will translate a piece of text differently and just because a 'better' translation may exist, it doesn't mean that other translations lack value.
I've learned to never take quality for granted whether it's fan translations or professional stuff. The Kurayami Dance translation is something that I have seen nothing but praise for (even the manga artist himself), but while the English is well written, it has a lot of issues.
I understand what you mean. I would argue the most glaring issue there is the lack of implication that the mother has to work all day to sustain the family, considering that Suda was also a child of divorce. I'm glad I haven't covered Kurayami yet because going by that translation I would have misunderstood the entire familial power dynamic.
Anyway I understand that you're not trying to shit on the original translator here, he goes on twitter saying that I make love to adolf hitler so he must be a cool guy to hang around with, you're just making my same point that having a public discourse is conductive to getting a more diverse range of perspectives which in itself leads to a better understanding of the product itself. As opposed to what's going on nowadays which is devout worship of a few talking heads.
I amended my moonlight syndrome analysis dozens of times, sometimes making microscopic changes that I doubt anyone noticed just because I came across some new bit of information on some guidebook or something. I actually had a fantastic experience with Jolovey translating the second half of the game since he would pay a lot of attention to the individual meaning of each kanji and going as far as to explain them to me with direct examples. That's what happens when you run into people who actually care because they have lives outside of their hobbies. My experience with you and Rake researching and translating ONK was just as fulfilling. Every time I look at that game I'm so happy lol. (I recorded the footage for chapter 4 today, I'll release the subtitles within the week. I can't make any promises as per when just because I'm having a few organizational issues at the moment and I'll be spending the rest of september in the UK, but it's not gonna take too long. Chapter 5 will have to wait until october though. For your delight, I found a ton more NPCs this time around, I'll send you an email once I've finished up the rest of the dialogue.)
I bought Liberation Maiden Sin when I was in Japan, but I haven't played it. I had always thought that Suda was involved with writing it, but the more I think about it, that's probably not the case. It's never mentioned in any Grasshopper or Suda books at all, so I guess it was really just a case of MAGES writing their own visual novel that just happened to be based on Liberation Maiden. Heck, the only mention of grasshopper on the box is a tiny 2012 Level-5/Grasshopper copyright.
I actually have an answer to that now. (I will also add that the Lollipop Chainsaw manga is getting scanned and translated. I won't be too involved with it but I'll still host it obviously.)
While I was researching LMS for the "Suda works" page of the website I actually ran into this interview https://www.famitsu.com/news/201304/26032236.html
As I understand it (obviously I understand Japanese as I understand any language, which is to say not at all), Suda wrote some specific scenarios for the game (though I don't know which ones) and acted as a supervisor, so he was not completely uninvolved. I think Wesley likes Liberation Maiden a lot, he talked about it to me in a PM so he might want to cover it eventually. I'm open to hosting anything really, I think melon wanted to do a write up on Contact as well
Xed51 wrote: ↑Tue Sep 06, 2022 7:48 pm
I understand what you mean. I would argue the most glaring issue there is the lack of implication that the mother has to work all day to sustain the family, considering that Suda was also a child of divorce. I'm glad I haven't covered Kurayami yet because going by that translation I would have misunderstood the entire familial power dynamic.
I interpreted it more as an implication that his mother may not be alive at all. We never see her and the house is always shown to be empty. He gets home and she's not there. He wakes up and she's not there.
Wataru wants his mother to come home but she's not in that world, possibly the reason that he wants to escape it.
Or I'm just talking out my ass. I really do need to read the whole thing again one day.
Anyway I understand that you're not trying to shit on the original translator here, he goes on twitter saying that I make love to adolf hitler so he must be a cool guy to hang around with, you're just making my same point that having a public discourse is conductive to getting a more diverse range of perspectives which in itself leads to a better understanding of the product itself. As opposed to what's going on nowadays which is devout worship of a few talking heads.
I don't know anything about the guy, and while I act like I'm being civil, I'm actually quite bitter about all the praise for what quite frankly was a half-assed effort. If your current skill level isn't good enough then don't do it or at least make it known that there are issues. Though I guess I could call myself out on that same thing with Blood+.
I actually have an answer to that now. (I will also add that the Lollipop Chainsaw manga is getting scanned and translated. I won't be too involved with it but I'll still host it obviously.)
While I was researching LMS for the "Suda works" page of the website I actually ran into this interview https://www.famitsu.com/news/201304/26032236.html
As I understand it (obviously I understand Japanese as I understand any language, which is to say not at all), Suda wrote some specific scenarios for the game (though I don't know which ones) and acted as a supervisor, so he was not completely uninvolved. I think Wesley likes Liberation Maiden a lot, he talked about it to me in a PM so he might want to cover it eventually. I'm open to hosting anything really, I think melon wanted to do a write up on Contact as well
Ah, I see. That seems like a pretty cool interview. I guess my initial assumptions were pretty much on point.
I thought Liberation Maiden was great. Probably the second best game in Level-5's guild series behind Crimson Shroud. That whole concept was way ahead of its time in my opinion. Basically indie games from famous Japanese devs and no one really cared, yet today indie games seem to be the only thing people talk about. People basically throw money at kickstarters and stuff when a JP dev is even slightly involved.
Crimson Shroud especially is baffling to me because I think the internet would lose its mind if Matsuno made something like that today.
GoldenRakshasa wrote: ↑Wed Sep 07, 2022 8:02 am
I interpreted it more as an implication that his mother may not be alive at all. We never see her and the house is always shown to be empty. He gets home and she's not there. He wakes up and she's not there.
Wataru wants his mother to come home but she's not in that world, possibly the reason that he wants to escape it.
Or I'm just talking out my ass. I really do need to read the whole thing again one day.
The way I interpreted it is that the single mother is almost like an unseen hero as she has to work all day to solve Wataru's problems (take care of the family's finances). It would tie in with the motif of western capitalist systems (namely the employer/employee, office job structure, the "salary man" economy) dividing Japanese families, which was portrayed as far back as Moonlight Syndrome with the ultimate result of it being the 25th ward where every single citizen is atomized and ready to kill one another on a whim. https://www.businessinsider.com/japan-a ... ?r=US&IR=T https://thediplomat.com/2021/01/japans- ... omenomics/
However, I would also need to re-read it with that information in mind. The ending could mean that the two of them are reunited in the afterlife, but the whole segment where he disappears and she's crying alone also seems to hint that she was grieving for Wataru (which would mean she's the living one, and he's dead).
Another thing that makes me think Wataru is the one to die and he's just reminiscing about his mother taking care of him through the years is the fact that all scripts for Kurayami (the original one you translated, black knight sword and this) start with the main character killing themselves, except for SotD where nonetheless Garcia still takes a bike ride to hell "beyond the sound barrier".
The castle is probably not dissimilar to the edge of the world in Moonlight Syndrome, a memory which becomes a place. Which is why all its characters are tied to Wataru's past in some way. It's interesting how it's his employer (who is ultimately revealed as a traitor / a false family) who sends him there to die, while his mother (real family) is the one protecting him.
No More Heroes 3 was also going to show an afterlife where fantasy characters coexist with "real" people, presumably because they're made real by their collective unconscious or something along those lines. (SotD was already shown as being a videogame within the setting of No More Heroes in TSA. To which it would follow that Fleming was also an imaginary character.) https://www.thegamer.com/interview-suda ... asshopper/
Which would be consistent with what we see in Kurayami Dance, when we learn that Travis was Wataru's master, but that happens immediately after we are shown the Bizzarre Jelly Five (the anime which travis likes) existing in the same world as them.
That doesn't really invalidate the idea that Wataru's mother also died at some point, and the end is her and Wataru finally rejoining one another in the afterlife.
It is weird because Wataru resolves to return to the real world and his real life after facing up to his childhood trauma in the castle (KILLING THE PAST so to speak), but on the other hand, Wataru does disappear from the dinner table and then reappears in front of his mother. I took that as meaning that he "died" (went in a coma, explored the edge of the world) but ultimately returned to her side, but it could also be interpreted that he was by her side when he was dead, returned to the real world to live his life, and ultimately returned to her side afterwards.
I'm going in chronological order for now so I'll see what I think about it when I get back to covering Kurayami in a year or so.
Some stuff is just utterly puzzling. Why does Wataru have a vision of white haired Sumio when doing the service for Kurogane's father?
I don't know anything about the guy, and while I act like I'm being civil, I'm actually quite bitter about all the praise for what quite frankly was a half-assed effort. If your current skill level isn't good enough then don't do it or at least make it known that there are issues. Though I guess I could call myself out on that same thing with Blood+.
I guess I disagree with you there, but only in the context where one would assume criticism and conversation would be allowed to happen (which they aren't anymore).
Using your Blood+ translation as an example, I think it's much better to have it exist out there specifically because if there are any lines that you're unsure about, having more people look at it means there's a higher chance of someone coming up with a better translation/understanding. Hell, I doubt it's feasible but having the translation exist out there might even encourage someone to make a hack or decompilation of the game.
Although "I guess" I could have put your translation notes in the description, I was just being lazy. I'll try to go back and do it today.
When he's finished with Moonlight Syndrome I'll ask Jolovey if he wants to take a look at those lines to see if he has any suggestions, he has been interfacing with his Japanese teacher for clarifications as well so that might be useful. It's gonna be a while though, chapters 2 to 5 of MS almost need to be retranslated from scratch. 6-10 just need minor corrections though.
My Moonlight Syndrome videos are actually another good example because I'm not satisfied at all with how they turned out and the original translation is far from perfect (by Izzey's own admission) but making that first version is what allowed Jolovey to approach me and now we can work on a definitive draft for it. I've even been approached by others who want to try and rebuild the game in Godot rather than hack it.
This is a teaser of what the finished videos will look like, it's not the finished product because other editors (Cat and Lord NINTENDO mostly) are working on making it even better:
The subtitles will be re-segmented to flow better, and the translation is being overhauled completely with some very minor edits by me (I'm talking about stuff like changing "I dislike you" to "I don't like you" or rearranging words very slightly to make more sense in english, not any type of "adaptation"). The path to that finished product however involved releasing an unfinished one as part of the process. That used to be normal.
The issue is that the people you're talking about (the ones who are "worshipped") are all butt buddies who become "untouchable" through collective "consensus", which in turn is achieved by playing social media bots (since social media isn't real) into manifesting said "consensus".
(I especially like how the idea that social media isn't real is considered a manic schizoid conspiracy theory even though it was widely reported on in mainstream media https://www.cnbc.com/2017/03/10/nearly- ... study.html
Ah yes, fringe national socialist reporters from CNBC... I can't trust people so closely associated with divorced conspiracy theorist Alex Jones.)
Guides like this one are exactly what I'm talking about when I mention information being turned into "factoids" that is used as "social credit" on "social media." I've seen it spread around on 4chan and reddit but the purpose is not really to inform anyone or to analyze anything, just to re-direct clicks to the "right" people.
I don't know who wrote this but you will immediately notice how Moonlight Syndrome, the game that originated the concept of "lingering consciousness / remaining thought" (which as Jolovey explained to me is the same word across all games, they just happened to have different translators), the edge of the world, the motif of madness conjoined with post-bubble urbanization and recession, the imagery of the full moon, the game which ends specifically where the silver case begins, is an unimportant "side title" on par with Let it Die.
That's because I'm covering it (The old webmaster who hasn't worked on the website or written anything suda-related for 13 years voted for trump so through transitionary law I'm evil), BMJ is scanning the books (he's russian, which means that he is putin himself and therefore he's evil) and CJ was the one working on the romhack (he likes having a police force, so he's dogwhistling to trumpist national socialism and he is, therefore, evil).
Therefore, Moonlight Syndrome is "tainted" and must not be given too much attention, because in turn it would give exposure to "evildoers".
(When I'm saying these things, I'm not theorizing. They're based on a plethora of evidence.)
Meanwhile, Red Blue and Green is a core title. Why? It would make sense if they were listing all the side content, but the silver case comic (which ties Moonlight Syndrome to TSC directly) is not there, the No More Heroes 1.5 video is not there, the truth files are not there, the silver case novel only gets a tiny mention at the bottom. The original No More Heroes also got a short story, does that not matter?
RBG is only listed as a core title, because the whole purpose of guides like this is to be eye catching and redirect you to the "right" people who need to get the "right" clicks to spread the "right" narrative. I'm not saying it's irrelevant either (though it is funny how you mentioned that part of the translation was just made up), I'm just saying that none of these things are made by hobbyists, just people who want to monopolize attention on specific subjects to then use their status as "experts" as a bargaining chip to get in with youtubers and other influencers.
Notice how Ghenry Perez changed his position on everything as soon as he became part of the "expert" clique. I actually kind of liked his older videos where he talked about those GhM games I don't really care for because he seemed to have a genuine enthusiasm for them. Nowadays he just puts out Mauler style 5 hour rants where he recaps the points that he's been told to be true by his discord server lol. Even doing a complete 180 when it comes to NMH2 now that he's been told that it was actually bad all along.
In that context, questioning anything the clique (which again, there's one for every single "fan community" and they're usually spearheaded by youtubers acting as talking heads) puts out becomes tantamount to war crimes because it would challenge their status of "experts".
So we get to our point that putting out imperfect translations or having discussions with different interpretations "would" be a good thing and was a good thing up until the last decade, because it led to more people with diverse ideas pitching in which in turn leads to a deeper understanding of the subject matter. What's going on nowadays, where a very few talking heads "own" a specific subject, is utterly useless and boring and serves only to feed the egos of losers. I am not troubled by other people expressing different opinions at all because I don't want to be internet famous, and I don't need to be internet famous. My job exists outside of the internet, and most of my hobbies (going to restaurants, visiting natural reserves and ruins, caring for animals, sea swimming, watching movies or playing games) don't involve internet communities either. Most people have no idea that I have written 99% of the content on the current website and still think it's ran by Topdrunkee, which is fine.
Most of my friends who play this shit (most of which also help out with the website) actually love NMH2 and 3. I think they're some of the worst games I've ever played. It doesn't matter at all to me nor to anyone normal, it only matters to losers who build their entire personas around having the "correct" opinions on any given subject.
It also ties to my comments in the gamergate thread where I said that I actually preferred having sarkeezian-style feminists bringing up radically different ideas of what gaming is or could be in the public discourse, because it led to more conversation and more points of view being brought up, which in turn nurtured the resurgence of indie gaming as opposed to the idea of videogames being built as math equations (which is what we have today, an utter adherence to conformism which is being passed off as "diversity".) viewtopic.php?p=3097#p3097
I want to respond to Angel's post as well, I just haven't gotten around to it.
Once "having the right opinion" becomes your lifeline, since having the "exclusive expert take" is your way in to ad-revenue, patreon and all that dogshit for spastic mongoloids, having other people put stuff out for free or disagreeing with the narrative means that your monopoly is being challenged directly. Which is why anyone who does that needs to be labelled as "disinfo agents" or "nazis" (the most recent buzzword would be "russian agents").
You might even have seen it happen recently, where there's a guy called Kaxantrom (who is a prince of a man and the secret owner of Paradise Hotel) who has been posting on this forum for 15 or so years and he really believes that Putin is the savior of society and that europe should just move within the russian sphere of influence. viewtopic.php?f=3&t=150&p=3130#p3130
He also thinks that the holocaust (or the "hologram" as we like to say here on stormfront) never happened and it was a ploy to frame the heroic adolf hitler, so on and so forth.
Now whether or not I agree with him on that is a separate matter entirely. I think his posts are fucking hysterical and that he's a core part of the site's identity since he's been here for ages. (It was even funnier on the old forum because he had like six or seven different accounts he would post under, like the smith syndicate personae, but you could always tell it was him due to his writing style.)
The point is that "someone" took what he's saying, and used it as a talking point (again, "factoid", "social credit") to say that this forum is a hive of Putin-financed far right national socialist holocaust deniers. (Again, it is a fact that I am an italian jew whos family was deported during WW2, with my grandmother escaping persecution by marrying a gentile and taking his surname, but that's unimportant because "factoids" trump "facts" as they can be shared on twitter.) Which means that most of our russian posters left overnight lol. It's a shame because I really liked Player1's posts but whatever.
Stuff like that happens because the entire internet nowadays revolves around "hiveminds" which means you can go onto any board, pick any post, and assume that's everyone's opinion. (In reality all active american posters on this board are democrats, except maybe for this guy who only posted once: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=165
I also got in trouble with the "old guard" for not wanting to team up with the spherehunter youtube channel because my belief that all internet celebrities and wannabe internet celebrities are walking trash is somehow "transphobic bullying" that "she" must be protected from.)
To me it's absurd that we even need to have this conversation because it's just a fucking hobby. But it is a fact that I have been autobanned from so many platforms that I never even tried to join (reddit, twitter, resetera etc.) just on the word of others, to the point where fucking Gab knows who I am and constantly sends me emails to join their service, LOL!
I personally don't care, but the sad aspect is that people like sumiosmith here get so fed up with e-celeb culture (HINT: the person who "claimed dibs" on KiD and decided their work was evil and needed to be purged is the same one who "properly" translated certain things we mentioned in this thread) that they stop contributing valuable content. I'll probably end up paying someone else to proofread and complete their KiD translation since they don't want to do it but I would have been much happier had they finished it.
I've seen it happen back in the 2010s with the Drakengard community where enetirnel was essentially chased out and all of her content disappeared despite being probably the best contributor in the community, because she was "taking attention away" from people who were being louder. There's no comparison between the manga scans she released and the low effort dogshit that came after and I had to work hard to salvage even part of her work (for example, I got some scans from her of the drakengard promotional comic which was discontinued and made non-canon after two issues and I'm probably the only person that has those since she just left the internet completely. I also have mirrors of her old website which was a direct inspiration for what I'm doing here and now.)
Ah, I see. That seems like a pretty cool interview. I guess my initial assumptions were pretty much on point.
I thought Liberation Maiden was great. Probably the second best game in Level-5's guild series behind Crimson Shroud.
I have to ask (if you even read this far and you haven't gotten bored with my drunken rant), what did you get out of Liberation Maiden? I'm really curious about your take on it since I only played it once when it was new and I don't remember anything about it, I think I just thought of it as some generic isometric shooter. The only things I remember is that you could unlock lore documents within the game by achieving certain tasks and that I liked KYMG's art. https://e-hentai.org/g/945602/6375597e86/?p=2
I even made a joke about it on the GhM WORKS page that I don't remember shit from it lol. https://www.paradisehotel51.com/sin/other-ghm/
The picture for it was also originally just Shoko's ass, but Johnny Casket (the art director) changed it to a less raunchy one. (Though he is the same guy putting asses everywhere so the choice is kind of lost on me.)
I guess in terms of smaller GhM games, Ranko Tsukigime and Frog Minutes were more memorable to me. (I'm gonna post the playable version of Frog Minutes eventually. That one is kinda sad actually.)
If you're ever interested in doing any writing on LM I'll host it. If a translation for Sin ever comes out obviously I'd look at it, or even if you just end up playing it someday and want to share a summary of the story. I'm just not rushing out trying to sponsor one since I only care up to a point.
That whole concept was way ahead of its time in my opinion. Basically indie games from famous Japanese devs and no one really cared, yet today indie games seem to be the only thing people talk about. People basically throw money at kickstarters and stuff when a JP dev is even slightly involved.
Crimson Shroud especially is baffling to me because I think the internet would lose its mind if Matsuno made something like that today.
That's a fantastic point and I really wish "anthology games" picked up as a format. Unfortunately, it's kind of impossible nowadays unless it happened on the switch due to the hyperinflation of HD development costs (and hyperinflation in general).
Funny you should mention Dreamboum, since he was from Resetera/NeoGAF, where I used to have massive KTP threads, and I think he just kind of picked up where I left off and ran with it, because I vaguely remember he used to follow my threads...
CENSORED wrote: ↑Tue Sep 06, 2022 7:48 pmThe end result of this is that nothing ever gets done because, as it turns out, the people who have the "correct opinions" about every single issue are few and far between. CJ Iwakura "distanced himself" from a staff member who had been working on the P2EP translation hack just because he was russian (which by the "old" definition of the term would make him a racist) and "somehow" said translation got finished pretty quickly by someone else.
He even had the gall to bitch about not being "forewarned" lol, as if he owned the IP or something.
Hilariously, Cj also got "cancelled" by the rest of the suda51 "fan community" for thinking that having a police force in his country is a good thing. I am told he now acts as if he and I are friends on his podcast even though he ran a discord server where I was smeared as a national socialist pedophile serial killer for years. (When it was convenient for him to sanction such behavior.)
Not to beat a dead horse, but I kind of want to comment on this to set the record straight.
The hacker who was working with me was from Russia, and he was going through a LOT of beef because of the Ukraine/Russia stuff, and people were trying to blame him for the delays, so I was trying to get his back, and didn't appreciate him being thrown under the bus when the project went sideways.
And the reason there was so much drama was because the hacker who finished the project "quickly" did so using effort that said hacker helped him with, and then he left our team without a word then quietly finished the work without telling us despite frequent attempts to contact him.
So yeah, it was a hot mess all around.
As for being "cancelled", that was more a falling out with some people in the KTP discord who I didn't agree with, but I started the channel, so said people decided to start their own discord(which I heard later on became a treehouse that started deleting dissenting opinions and kicking people out,which tracks).
As for PH51, a lot of the members(some of whom were in said splinter group) were often critical of the site, and while I was pretty open about not agreeing with certain political things, I often did(and still do) try to defend the site as the OG resource for KTP stuff before it got big, and that it's still one of the better resources out there.
(And I personally don't think I did any direct insulting, though it probably came from people associated with the discord, and if so, apologies on their behalf.)
If I were to give you a hint, after reading about the drama you all have faced, is that the modern Grasshopper community is a madhouse. Period. I think every experience I had with the community was bad to some degree and that it will only get worse. Especiially since No More Heroes 3's colorful marketing and Reddit-ness attracted Twitter minors and other kinds of people that I would put in a similar bag.
Before No More Heroes 3, I already had my fair share of experience with weird behavior coming from "reliable" people in the community, some of which who pretended to know more than they actually knew. I already met a couple of people who acted as if they played these games, while they clearly didn't. It might be more common to witness strange zoomer behavior like this nowadays, but I think some of the old people were already deranged and hard to deal with since forever.
If you have been falsely accused of things you would never do, like some of you affirmed, just let them do it. Honestly, it's instinctively visible when someone has enough insanity to pull off something like that. Instability doesn't show in only one aspect of someone's life, it appears in many different ways and anyone who is mature is able to catch up these red flags rather early. Whoever cuts you due to suspicions is simply not worth it, it's immature behavior at its finest. Just let them dig their own hole, especially because you don't need to take responsibility for their backfire. Which will undeniably happen. Trust me, it always does.
I'm glad this forum is back, discussing about Suda is actually feasible somewhere outside my friends' PMs now. The recent No More Heroes 2 drama made me get a bit uncomfortable, especially because it seems that these people don't understand that the "unnecessary bloodshed" is thematic. The point is that Travis is killing innocent people to exact his revenge because he is blinded by anger, and that the other assassins also recklessly do impulsive actions that harm other people. And even when they affirm racism, it's a 2010 game made by a Japanese developer with a lot of western cinema exposition. It's literally an outsider's view into the western culture, which means the aesthetics will end up playing with stereotypes unconsciously and consciously (and in Nathan's case, it's a stereotype based on hip-hop aesthetics). While I do think it's fine to criticize this and I do understand anyone who feels offended, I also feel they forget that the social awareness they want from Grasshopper in this title didn't really exist back in 2010, and it's still not that prominent in the east.
And if we're being intellectually honest, they are also lying to themselves about No More Heroes 3 to some degree. I've seen some tweets complaining about that No More Heroes 2 scene because "Travis doesn't like to kill women". Meanwhile, I'm quite sure Travis brutally kills a lot of female assassins in the Suda directed games. This isn't really that inconsistent, it has to do with Travis' revenge. Travis IS SUPPOSED TO BE ANGRY AND RECKLESS in the first segments of the game. They also love to mention that NMH2 was retconned, but they seem to forget that NMH1 itself was retconned when they changed Henry's past. The main issue might be that they assume there is some sort of consistency in NMH's universe and writing, but the games change a lot of their universe and structure depending on the themes they might tackle. Just like Kill The Past games are rather different between themselves because Suda wants to tackle different themes, which means he usually defies what you would expect of a direct sequel.
That being said, back into the original topic: the cancellation was tough, and I agree with GoldenRakhshas that it's better to have more translated material than less. I feel there's a cultural war going on in the untold aspects of this fight. If we are to rebel against the very core of this issue, we should produce our material and share it regardless of backlash. We want to share Suda51 content because we like Suda51, not because we want some cocksuckers trying to hug our dicks like a lot of these people.
GoldenRakshasa wrote: ↑Tue Sep 06, 2022 7:59 amI bought Liberation Maiden Sin when I was in Japan, but I haven't played it. I had always thought that Suda was involved with writing it, but the more I think about it, that's probably not the case. It's never mentioned in any Grasshopper or Suda books at all, so I guess it was really just a case of MAGES writing their own visual novel that just happened to be based on Liberation Maiden. Heck, the only mention of grasshopper on the box is a tiny 2012 Level-5/Grasshopper copyright.
Liberation Maiden is my favorite GhM game besides the old KTP titles (which I'll limit to the ones up to Killer7). The gameplay was so fun, finishing it in hard mode was a very memorable experience. It's probably the only time Grasshopper managed to properly implement shmup influences in their games without making it feel completely dogshit. Yes, I'm looking at you Shadows of the Damned.
It felt more like a polished short Platinum Games title than a janky Grasshopper action game. Really interesting and innovative gameplay too, and it still has one of GhM's best OSTs if you ask me.
I wonder if I should pick up SIN. I enjoy MAGES' work, but I can't say I enjoyed Liberation Maiden exactly for its writing. It's perfect for a game, but I wonder how they transformed that ludic setting into a coherent visual novel. It might be an interesting experience regardless if it works or not. Just like Ranko Tsukigime.
Last edited by 水銀鬼神 on Sun Mar 05, 2023 6:20 pm, edited 3 times in total.
水銀鬼神 wrote: ↑Sun Mar 05, 2023 2:06 pm
If I were to give you a hint, after reading about the drama you all have faced, is that the modern Grasshopper community is a madhouse. Period. I think every experience I had with the community was bad to some degree and that it will only get worse. Especiially since No More Heroes 3's colorful marketing and Reddit-ness attracted Twitter minors and other kinds of people that I would put in a similar bag.
Before No More Heroes 3, I already had my fair share of experience with weird behavior coming from "reliable" people in the community, some of which who pretended to know more than they actually knew. I already met a couple of people who acted as if they played these games, while they clearly didn't. It might be more common to witness strange zoomer behavior like this nowadays, but I think some of the old people were already deranged and hard to deal with since forever.
If you have been falsely accused of things you would never do, like some of you affirmed, just let them do it. Honestly, it's instinctively visible when someone has enough insanity to pull off something like that. Instability doesn't show in only one aspect of someone's life, it appears in many different ways and anyone who is mature is able to catch up these red flags rather early. Whoever cuts you due to suspicions is simply not worth it, it's immature behavior at its finest. Just let them dig their own hole, especially because you don't need to take responsibility for their backfire. Which will undeniably happen. Trust me, it always does.
For what it's worth, I've dealt with worse, so it's no skin off my back, just wanted to clear the air about the supposed insults and things that people here(Xed?) say they'd been called, and make it evident I have no beef with PH51.
As for the community, eh, that's every community ever once it gets big. I've seen firsthand the toxicity that the SMT scene has bred, and I've been with it since the 00s. The KTP scene was ultra cozy until it blew up, then as with anything, the idiots started showing up.
That said, I think our discord has largely purged itself of the hateful stupid element, so hopefully Suda fans can still feel welcome there.
水銀鬼神 wrote: ↑Sun Mar 05, 2023 2:06 pm
If I were to give you a hint, after reading about the drama you all have faced, is that the modern Grasshopper community is a madhouse. Period. I think every experience I had with the community was bad to some degree and that it will only get worse. Especiially since No More Heroes 3's colorful marketing and Reddit-ness attracted Twitter minors and other kinds of people that I would put in a similar bag.
Before No More Heroes 3, I already had my fair share of experience with weird behavior coming from "reliable" people in the community, some of which who pretended to know more than they actually knew. I already met a couple of people who acted as if they played these games, while they clearly didn't. It might be more common to witness strange zoomer behavior like this nowadays, but I think some of the old people were already deranged and hard to deal with since forever.
I think in previous threads, especially about NMH3 can further prove your stance on the state of modern GhM community and that talking head "influencers" are why we have the modern community the way it is now. There's no room for debate when some popular dude says that a shitty game is good because it was a metadesign all along and now sniffing someone's fart and acting high and mighty about all that shit.
Although it's more of a mutual problem of modern Suda and his modern fanbase. It's akin to ouroboros. He makes shitty games for larger audience and "marvel cool references 10 hours of gaming per day!" type of dudes consume all this shit.
水銀鬼神 wrote: ↑Sun Mar 05, 2023 2:06 pm
If you have been falsely accused of things you would never do, like some of you affirmed, just let them do it. Honestly, it's instinctively visible when someone has enough insanity to pull off something like that. Instability doesn't show in only one aspect of someone's life, it appears in many different ways and anyone who is mature is able to catch up these red flags rather early. Whoever cuts you due to suspicions is simply not worth it, it's immature behavior at its finest. Just let them dig their own hole, especially because you don't need to take responsibility for their backfire. Which will undeniably happen. Trust me, it always does.
Yet that's exactly what Xed was doing. He stopped any direct involvement with his "haters" outside of occasional posting of how he hates all that fucking shit. The thing is, he WAS a bad guy for everybody BECAUSE he was from THAT ONE SITE. I'm not sure that the people hating him could factually prove where he said this or that, but they still didn't like this guy simply for being one of administrator of this scary place. Hence why he's not around anymore, cuz he got tired from all that shit that actually started to affect him irl.
水銀鬼神 wrote: ↑Sun Mar 05, 2023 2:06 pm
This isn't really that inconsistent, it has to do with Travis' revenge. Travis IS SUPPOSED TO BE ANGRY AND RECKLESS in the first segments of the game. They also love to mention that NMH2 was retconned, but they seem to forget that NMH1 itself was retconned when they changed Henry's past. The main issue might be that they assume there is some sort of consistency in NMH's universe and writing, but the games change a lot of their universe and structure depending on the themes they might tackle. Just like Kill The Past games are rather different between themselves because Suda wants to tackle different themes, which means he usually defies what you would expect of a direct sequel frequently.
You can see the problem here. A lot of these guys don't even fucking play the games. I'm sure these are the same type of guys that were like GOOOD DAAAAMN TSA NOW CONNECTS EVERY SUDA51 GAME LIKE OMG CAN YOU BELIEVE THAT K7, TSC AND NMH ARE ALL IN THE SAME CONTINUITY?? while proving that they're either played the games and still retarded to make some connections or, which is worse, they're the type you've mentioned, the one who doesn't even play the games.
水銀鬼神 wrote: ↑Sun Mar 05, 2023 2:06 pm
Liberation Maiden is my favorite GhM game besides the old KTP titles (which I'll limit to the ones up to Killer7). The gameplay was so fun, finishing it in hard mode was a very memorable experience. It's probably the only time Grasshopper managed to properly implement shmup influences in their games without making it feel completely dogshit. Yes, I'm looking at you Shadows of the Damned.
I'm with you here. I find LM one of the best games GhM made in 2010s. Not like I remember anything from it, but I enjoyed it greatly and that says a lot. LMAO
I can't believe I'm even posting here (I brought this avatar with me to ward off this sites gross energy).
CJ you're a fascist, they banned you from ResetEra for a reason and no amount of backpedaling is going to change the fact you WORK FOR THE POLICE. How the fuck can you call yourself a leftist? You're no different from Xed or that other creep.
There's no one who's ever wanted to hijack Suda's work more than you freaks, great job getting people to join who think arbitrary murder of POC in NMH2 is cool, as always all you've ever done is spread misinformation and smear Suda is a fascist.
No one cares about this irrelevant site and no amount of spamming will make anyone care. Everyone with a brain has grown up and moved beyond this edgelord shit you guys are pathetically trying to keep alive.
To anyone here that's unfamiliar with these people, just leave. Don't let them act like they control this shit.
This hotel visitors literally live in his head RENT FREE
Can you believe that a man like HIM exists?
WELCOME to our new freak show... SCHIZOOOOOOOO7
And today's guest is the man WHO'S STILL BITTER ABOUT HIS PAST!
He can't let go of it, he can't move on, so instead...
HE BECAME THE MAN WHO WILL SAVETHEPAST!
/sotw
SAVETHEPAST wrote: ↑Sun Mar 05, 2023 4:55 pm
You guys are fucking delusional.
I can't believe I'm even posting here (I brought this avatar with me to ward off this sites gross energy).
CJ you're a fascist, they banned you from ResetEra for a reason and no amount of backpedaling is going to change the fact you WORK FOR THE POLICE. How the fuck can you call yourself a leftist? You're no different from Xed or that other creep.
There's no one who's ever wanted to hijack Suda's work more than you freaks, great job getting people to join who think arbitrary murder of POC in NMH2 is cool, as always all you've ever done is spread misinformation and smear Suda is a fascist.
No one cares about this irrelevant site and no amount of spamming will make anyone care. Everyone with a brain has grown up and moved beyond this edgelord shit you guys are pathetically trying to keep alive.
To anyone here that's unfamiliar with these people, just leave. Don't let them act like they control this shit.
bonjour mon petit cherie what brings a "lady" of such regal beauty to our little corner in heaven
