Killer7 SINdicate

[NewWorldOrder]

Not sure if anyone is interesting in me blabbing about a game, but if so, read on.

One of the games that really struck a chord with me over the last few years is Zanki Zero. I absolutely love this game and thought that I'd maybe talk about it a bit because I consider it very underappreciated. I think it's a really unique game that is unlike anything else I have played, and the characters and story hit me in a way that very few games are able to do these days. Now, I'm not saying the game is some epic philosophical work with super deep themes or whatever. This isn't like Xenogears or some masterpiece on that level. Even the developers themselves have said that some of the choices they made had no real meaning, and there are some story aspects that are simply left unresolved. That said, the game deals with some quite dark themes and despite having some cliche aspects, was a great experience.


Zanki Zero is a game made by some of the developers who worked on the Danganronpa games, but their creator Kazutaka Kodaka was not involved. The game is very much the brain child of Takayuki Sugawara, who served as director and scenario writer for the game. But this connection is one of the reasons why I think the game was largely ignored. It seemed to me like Spike Chunsoft wanted to sell the game on the Danganronpa connection despite it not really having much in common other than a cast of characters invovled in a mystery. Now, I actually do like the Danganronpa games, but Zanki Zero is very different, and I think that is a reason why people were disappointed by it.

The other major reason not many people played it was likely the censorship issue that the game encountered. I don't really want to get into whether it should or should not have have been censored but stuff like that definitely leaves a mark on the reputation of a game. I will explain the context though as most people don't actually have a grasp on what was actually cut as they haven't played the game and just assume loads of important content was removed.

I played the jp vita version and in my opinion the censored stuff is beyond minor. Basically, you have an option to have characters share a room for the night which grants bonuses for exploration. This also builds their bond, giving you scenes (like a social link). After you max the bond, you start to get bedroom scenes where the CG image is different depending on the character's current age (child, adult, elderly) and you get one of a few short dialogues that are random and in no way tied to the image. I assume the intention of the child/elderly pics was as a joke, but that kind of thing doesn't fly in the west, and thus the child ones were removed from the overseas version. I get why they felt the need to remove them and I also get the anti-censorship crowd, but the thing is that in a normal playthrough I didn't even come close to maxing any bonds let alone see the bedroom scenes. I had to grind out the bonds post game. It's a whole lot of handwringing over a few images that most players would never see. There are a couple of other CGs that were altered and those I don't think were necessary (honestly makes one seem more lewd), but again doesn't have a huge effect on the overall game.

I don't really wanna dwell on that shit or argue about it as I'd rather talk about the actual game.


The game opens with a man who is seemingly about to jump off the roof of a skyscraper. He then awakens on a deserted island where he meets seven other people there, but no one knows how they got there or what happened to them. They learn that the earth has possibly been destroyed, and that they may be the last survivors. Their aim is to survive on the island, while trying to get to the bottom of what exactly happened. They are guided by an old fashioned TV show that features two mascot characters (amusingly voiced by the Japanese voice actors for Goku and Frieza) who are the main source of the game's humour. The characters also discover that when they die they evaporate and all that is left is the metallic d-pad attached to their belly buttons. They can then use a machine on the island to create a clone and essentially come back to life. These clones age rapidly, beginning as a child and growing to old age within the space of just over a week. This is a key aspect to both the story and the gameplay systems.

The story admittedly sounds like a ridculous premise and very much is, but what truly grabbed me, and my favourite aspect of the game, is discovering the backgrounds of the characters. During the game, new islands appear over time and each serves as a dungeon based around the past of one of the characters. As you explore an island, that character's past is revealed via videos played on tvs but done in a unique style with the characters appearing as black silhouettes with no voice acting. The music in these scenes are actually remixes of other music in the game but done in a kind of vintage style that fits the old tv show theme. The music is really good and I find that it really adds to the emotion of the scenes whether they are happy or sad. Upon learning all of the character's past you then encounter the boss of the area which is also linked to the character. The themes of these parts are very much 'kill the past' with each character being forced to face their trauma and then overcome it. I think the game has a very different style to Suda games, but I've never played any other non-Suda game that captures the kill the past idea so well. I first tried Zanki Zero via the Japanese demo on PS4, and even though I was still early on in learning Japanese and didn't fully understand it, those scenes instantly grabbed me. There are some parts in the character pasts that genuinely gave me a sick feeling in the pit of my stomach. I find that these days very few games can make me truly feel much of anything, so that was something that really stood out to me and made me really interested in the game.

I think the overall story/mystery is quite interesting, though there are certainly some cliches that kinda bring it down. I can see people not liking it for those reasons. I do think the game is a great emotional journey too, with the ending in particular going for a strong emotional effect. Getting to the point where I truly care about the characters is another thing that I don't think a lot of games can pull off very easily.

Graphics are nothing special but do the job fine, while the music is simply outstanding. I spent a lot of time trying to track down the composer, but I believe that this was actually their first work. As I mentioned previously, the old-timey remixes used for the character pasts are standouts.

As for the actual gameplay, it is essentially a DRPG without the RPG battles. So, first person perspective and moving around a grid map, but everything, including attacking enemies, is in real time. Lancarse (developers of Etrian Odyssey, SMT Strange Journey) handled the systems and all that, so those parts are top notch. As you explore you will need to find resources to help you expand your facilities and allow you to explore further. At the beginning, you will be using sticks to beat up goats just so that you can eat them to survive. Survival is also a major theme in the gameplay with each character having life, stamima, stress and bladder meters. You need to balance eating, going to the bathroom, resting, etc. to keep everyone in peak form as you explore. This makes for some really interesting situations. For example, if there is no toilet nearby, you can have a character pee in an empty bottle, but this will also have a negative effect, raising their stress. Characters age over time and the stages (child, adult, middle aged, elderly) affect your attack power and how much weight you can carry among other things.

The dungeons aren't overly complex but contain some nice puzzles that I enjoyed. Some were a little tricky for me in Japanese but I found them satisfying to solve.

You gather resources to develop facilities on the main island that allow you to craft weapons, cook food, etc. There is a system where you can have characters share a room for the night which provides bonuses like faster charge attacks, more item drops, 1hp after receiving a killing blow and more. There are character levels, but stats are only affected by equipment, with levels only providing skill points that let you learn different abilites.

The most unique system is the Shigabane system. The term means 死がバネ or 'death is a springboard', and is a system that allows benefits depending on the way you die. Say, for example, you are killed by a goat. When you revive your character, they will have a skill that greatly reduces the damage from goats, helping you avoid the same fate. A character dies from eating a food they were allergic to? Now they can eat it no problem. Died with a full bladder? Next time around your bladder capacity increases. There are a ton of these to find and the system really encourages you to just play and get stronger from your failures, rather than just reboot an older save.

The game has many difficulties that you can change during the game, with higher diffculties having stronger enemies, but offering more resources in exchange. I would avoid the easiest as that is literally story only, removing the enemies and causing bosses to die in one hit. Playing that way would be a waste in my opinion.

As for the English version, from what I've seen the translation seems a little dry, but there aren't any mistakes or crap like that. Some of the humour is lost and a couple of word based puzzles don't work as well, but I think it's fine overall.

I don't think the game was received that well in Japan either, but there were enough fans for them to hold a 1 year anniversary event which I think is cool. I actually roughly translated a couple of bits of a famitsu report on that event which was probably my first translation thing I ever shared (to like 3 people who read it).

This game made me laugh and cry. It is truly one of the most meaningful games I've played in the last decade.

If you've played it, maybe you agree with me or maybe you think the game is crap and I'm a moron with trash taste in games. I can understand both views, and I can certainly see why people wouldn't take to the game.
If anyone is interested in trying it out, there is an English demo (PS4) that lets you play the first two chapters. Chapter 2 is probably the one that hooked me, so if you don't like it after the demo, I wouldn't bother.

If you bothered to read this rambling wall of text, I hope it wasn't a complete waste of time. Thanks

[Jack]

We already have a thread for Jrpgs, but this is different enough. I do consider Dungeon crawlers as different enough from a baseline Jrpg. Although what passes for a dungeon crawler these days is somewhat confusing, such as the latest SMT5 game, which barely has any dungeons. No I don't consider the overworld as a dungeon in itself. Dungeon crawlers have a specific style of gameplay which emphasizes team synergy, resource management & survival. Which the latest SMT game doesn't really do much of at all.

Not sure if anyone is interesting in me blabbing about a game, but if so, read on.

Zanki Zero is a game made by some of the developers who worked on the Danganronpa games, but their creator Kazutaka Kodaka was not involved. The game is very much the brain child of Takayuki Sugawara, who served as director and scenario writer for the game.

I was actually wondering why every Danganronpa-ish game (Death Come True, World's End Club, etc.), is on the Switch except for Zanki Zero but it's coz Kazutaka had nothing to do with Zanki.

I didn't even come close to maxing any bonds let alone see the bedroom scenes. I had to grind out the bonds post game. It's a whole lot of handwringing over a few images that most players would never see. There are a couple of other CGs that were altered and those I don't think were necessary (honestly makes one seem more lewd), but again doesn't have a huge effect on the overall game.

I don't really wanna dwell on that shit or argue about it as I'd rather talk about the actual game.

That's my problem with Xenoblade 2, and why I eventually got rid of those games. All English-based discussion about XB2 isn't about the damn game. It's about Dahlia's huge tits, and her being butt naked.
(As if Darkstalker's Felicia has never existed. Nobody cried about her back then, and she's human-fleshed colored.)

It's funny coz you won't even see Dahlia under normal gameplay and it took me about 400 hours of playing before I ever unlocked her, but it's all the internet ever talks about.
XB2 is a great game and all, Torna being even better but the Gacha mechanics really ruin it. The only reason why I had a great time with XB2 is coz Kos-Mos was like the 4rth blade that I unlocked during the mission when you trek back to Rex's home.

The themes of these parts are very much 'kill the past' with each character being forced to face their trauma and then overcome it. I think the game has a very different style to Suda games, but I've never played any other non-Suda game that captures the kill the past idea so well.

When I played the japanese demo. I recall stumbling on some bodies in the high shcool, which I guess were kinda like host bodies from the SC games. There seems to be a sense spiritual transmigration going on in the game. I dunno. I remembering zoining out coz they talk too much. I have the same problem with Digmon Cyber Sleuth, which is a good game whenever you get to play it, but they talk too damn much.

I think the overall story/mystery is quite interesting, though there are certainly some cliches that kinda bring it down. I can see people not liking it for those reasons. I do think the game is a great emotional journey too, with the ending in particular going for a strong emotional effect. Getting to the point where I truly care about the characters is another thing that I don't think a lot of games can pull off very easily.

Feel free to spoil it. I don't think I'm playing it anytime soon if it's never coming to Switch. There's a spoiler tag that blacks out the spoiler untill you click on the text..

Graphics are nothing special but do the job fine, while the music is simply outstanding. I spent a lot of time trying to track down the composer, but I believe that this was actually their first work. As I mentioned previously, the old-timey remixes used for the character pasts are standouts.

Yeah I was shocked that she only composed this game. She has such a familiar composing style that I just assumed that she were a veteran. It's a similar shock I had to Ippo from Phantasy Star 3 & 4, who hasn't made a single ost since PS3 & 4.


A shame coz Ippo had great musical sense.

As for the actual gameplay, it is essentially a DRPG without the RPG battles. So, first person perspective and moving around a grid map, but everything, including attacking enemies, is in real time. Lancarse (developers of Etrian Odyssey, SMT Strange Journey) handled the systems and all that, so those parts are top notch. As you explore you will need to find resources to help you expand your facilities and allow you to explore further. At the beginning, you will be using sticks to beat up goats just so that you can eat them to survive. Survival is also a major theme in the gameplay with each character having life, stamima, stress and bladder meters. You need to balance eating, going to the bathroom, resting, etc. to keep everyone in peak form as you explore. This makes for some really interesting situations. For example, if there is no toilet nearby, you can have a character pee in an empty bottle, but this will also have a negative effect, raising their stress. Characters age over time and the stages (child, adult, middle aged, elderly) affect your attack power and how much weight you can carry among other things.

This sounds so much like my type of game. I remember when I played the Japanese demo. I recall just putting the two dudes in the front and I would just grab a stone (or maybe it was a stick.) and I'd just throw it at enemies, then run up to it, pick it up and throw it again. It felt really hectic coz you're being attacked in real time, like a Might & magic game. In fact, that's what Zanki Zero plays like, a classic Might & Magic game.

Although I did like what I played. It came out the same month as World War Z which was $20 cheaper so I got that game instead. Two months later I ditched the PS4 and bought me a Switch. Been there ever since. I'd try out Zanki Zero if it ever came to Switch.

The most unique system is the Shigabane system. The term means 死がバネ or 'death is a springboard', and is a system that allows benefits depending on the way you die. Say, for example, you are killed by a goat. When you revive your character, they will have a skill that greatly reduces the damage from goats, helping you avoid the same fate. A character dies from eating a food they were allergic to? Now they can eat it no problem. Died with a full bladder? Next time around your bladder capacity increases. There are a ton of these to find and the system really encourages you to just play and get stronger from your failures, rather than just reboot an older save.

The game has many difficulties that you can change during the game, with higher diffculties having stronger enemies, but offering more resources in exchange. I would avoid the easiest as that is literally story only, removing the enemies and causing bosses to die in one hit. Playing that way would be a waste in my opinion.


I don't think the game was received that well in Japan either, but there were enough fans for them to hold a 1 year anniversary event which I think is cool. I actually roughly translated a couple of bits of a famitsu report on that event which was probably my first translation thing I ever shared (to like 3 people who read it).

This game made me laugh and cry. It is truly one of the most meaningful games I've played in the last decade.

Have you ever played Kowloon Highschool? It's a dark gothic Dungeon crawler Jrpg. I think it was published by Atlus Japan on PS2.
https://www.nintendo.com/games/detail/k ... le-switch/

I've been wanting to play that game since forever but I of course bought SMT3 Nocturne, Shadow Hearts Covenant & DDS instead lol.

If you've played it, maybe you agree with me or maybe you think the game is crap and I'm a moron with trash taste in games. I can understand both views, and I can certainly see why people wouldn't take to the game.
If anyone is interested in trying it out, there is an English demo (PS4) that lets you play the first two chapters. Chapter 2 is probably the one that hooked me, so if you don't like it after the demo, I wouldn't bother.

I liked what I played of it, but the demo also didn't give you enough raw gameplay. I got the sense that it had the same exact gameplay flow as the Digimon Cyber Sleuth games, where you walk 2 steps, watch a 10 minute visual novel cutscene (which are unskippable in CS.) then walk another step and get into another damn cutscene.

From what little I've experienced of the gameplay systems, it seemed like it could've been a great survival experience. I think rpgs do a much better job with survival style gameplay than survival horrors do. Surival horrors always rely on shitty controls & camera to compensate when i think a turn-based system makes much more sense, because you're forced to make the most you can with that one turn.

What's amusing is that this used to be the normal gameplay for Western rpgs. I recall Dungeons & Dragons games requiring you to find food to refill stamina or you slowly die or go insane.
Then year after year, the survival mechanisms were replaced with 'love simulator' written by nerds who you could obviously tell have never been in a relationshit by virtue of how corny the dialogue comes off.

Yeah that's right Baldur's Gate 1 & 2 + Throne of Ball. I'm calling you out!
Trash game. What sucks is that modern CRpgs are still modeled after Baldur's Gate like Pathfinder. I was laughing when I saw this one romance check where the dude has a flirting option and he said something to the effect of "Oh, I'd like to inform you that you are attractive. Pardon me milady if you do not wish to speak to me. I shall respect your wishes." I'm like ... "AAYYY LMAO!"
Japanese games have much more natural dialogue which actually sounds like a back in forth between a man & a woman. Yukari Takeba has a terrible shitty personality, but it's a very realistic terrible personality of your average woman. Similar to how Stupei sounds exactly like that goofy class clown that we all knew.

[NewWorldOrder]

We already have a thread for Jrpgs, but this is different enough. I do consider Dungeon crawlers as different enough from a baseline Jrpg. Although what passes for a dungeon crawler these days is somewhat confusing, such as the latest SMT5 game, which barely has any dungeons. No I don't consider the overworld as a dungeon in itself. Dungeon crawlers have a specific style of gameplay which emphasizes team synergy, resource management & survival. Which the latest SMT game doesn't really do much of at all.

My bad. I guess I should have put it into an existing thread. I don't really know how to classify this game though. JRPG doesn't seem quite right, but it does share many aspects.
As for SMTV, I really loved the game, but you're right about that. They just kind of tried to open-world-ify it because that's the fad (I think the only open world game I actually like is Xenoblade X). The few dungeons that were there were almost pointless. I basically played the game mainly fighting only bosses and doing the quests. It was a pretty big contrast to say, Nocturne where managing the party and your MP while going through dungeons was essential.

XB2 is a great game and all, Torna being even better but the Gacha mechanics really ruin it. The only reason why I had a great time with XB2 is coz Kos-Mos was like the 4rth blade that I unlocked during the mission when you trek back to Rex's home.

Haven't played it yet, but looking forward to trying it out. I'm actually still only part way through XB1 which I need to get back onto.

I finally played Xenogears a couple of years ago and holy crap, did it live up to it's reputation. I don't think there's much else out there like it. I also loved XBX. Definitely need to try out Xenosaga too at some point.

I remembering zoining out coz they talk too much. I have the same problem with Digmon Cyber Sleuth, which is a good game whenever you get to play it, but they talk too damn much.

I can understand that. It is heavy on dialogue scenes which are kinda on a visual novel level. I don't think it's too bad as you go through the dungeons, but the beginning and end of each chapter definitely have a lot of talking.

This sounds so much like my type of game. I remember when I played the Japanese demo. I recall just putting the two dudes in the front and I would just grab a stone (or maybe it was a stick.) and I'd just throw it at enemies, then run up to it, pick it up and throw it again. It felt really hectic coz you're being attacked in real time, like a Might & magic game. In fact, that's what Zanki Zero plays like, a classic Might & Magic game.

Although I did like what I played. It came out the same month as World War Z which was $20 cheaper so I got that game instead. Two months later I ditched the PS4 and bought me a Switch. Been there ever since. I'd try out Zanki Zero if it ever came to Switch.

You can definitely encouter some intense moments. Like walking through a hallway and hearing a thumping sound that is quickly approaching. You turn around and get launched across the room by a charging boar and most of your team is probably dead. Higher difficulties make most enemies really dangerous. There's also traps and that kind of thing that you would expect in a DRPG.

It would be good to have it on switch to give more people a chance to play it, but I don't know if it's likely to happen.

Have you ever played Kowloon Highschool? It's a dark gothic Dungeon crawler Jrpg. I think it was published by Atlus Japan on PS2.

I bought it on switch, but I've yet to get around to it. Seems really cool though from the 20 min I played. DRPG with a really interesting setting. I like the whole relic hunter type thing.

[Jack]

My bad. I guess I should have put it into an existing thread. I don't really know how to classify this game though. JRPG doesn't seem quite right, but it does share many aspects.

Dungeon Crawler, Blobber, that's what this thread seems to be. You could prob just bring up any niche relatively unknown Japanese titles since I saw you bring up Monark in another thread which was a game I looked into ever since I found out about it through amazon. (I have to buy a new mac charger, but I figure I'll get some games that I can't find in stores like Akibas Trip while I'm at it.)

As for SMTV, I really loved the game, but you're right about that. They just kind of tried to open-world-ify it because that's the fad (I think the only open world game I actually like is Xenoblade X). The few dungeons that were there were almost pointless. I basically played the game mainly fighting only bosses and doing the quests. It was a pretty big contrast to say, Nocturne where managing the party and your MP while going through dungeons was essential.

Not just Nocturne, SMT in general. SMT games started out as Wizardry clones, and it's that adherence to classic style Wizardry (the first 3 games. Later wizardry titles were more like an openworld dungeon crawl similar to Dragon Quest 3.) that I expect from a mainline SMT game. SMT5 is basically a sidegame with the budget of a main game. They were most likely going for another Persona 3, where P3 eventually took over the identity of the entire Persona series. At least with Persona, it never really had a defined identity to begin with until P3. The previous Persona games basically felt like spin-offs of Shin Megami Tensei If, to the point that they're even part of the same timeline.

I'm probably the last remaining remnant of the original SMT internet community whose still barely on internet. (I only post here & at imageboards. I'll sometimes troll a bit on gamefags, which feels like a battle ground between imageboards & resetera.)

Everyone else from the classic SMT community prob just got too old and stopped caring about video games.
Last I heard, they moved over to Arlus, but that's nearly a decade and a half ago. They're just the Atlus official forum regulars though, whom I never got along with at all mainly coz they had their own gatekeepers who have always hated me for some reason.

The official Atlus forum crew were different from the groups that I was a part of.
The SMT community originally came from BBS & other 90s era tech that 90s & early 2000s Megaten constantly makes references to. Especially the SMT IF timeline games which include Devil Summoner, Soul Hackers & the Persona 1, Persona 2 Duology games. Ironically, both Persona 2 games were hinting at the post modernist reality we live in now, where reality is shaped and dictated by rumors & hearsay spread through cellphones & social media. P2 used late 90s tech though, so their form of social media was anonymous bbs bulletins & flipphones, lol.

The SMT fanbase were already in their 40s & 50s by the time Nocturne came out. That's part of the reason why Nocturne flopped. The audience that made SMT popular in Japan to begin with, were just far too old to give a shit about Devil May Cry Dante and all of this other 'modern' (2003era) gaming nonsense. I was still a teen or barely an adult at the time, but even I moved on from SMT shortly after Persona 3 & 4 which were even more 'modernized' than Nocturne, Raido & DDS were.
The OG fanbase focused more on SMT's occultism & mythos far moreso than the modern fanbase does.
The modern fanbase wastes far too much time debating over the completely uninteresting conflict of Law vs Chaos and how Neutral is always the most sensible option.
While I agree that within the context of Megashit games, that Neutrality is the best option. That's more due to god awful writing rather than a choice made through logic & facts. Rather it's a choice that's forced upon you.

I was arguing about this choice with Krizz at the Nintendo thread. Yes his arguments make sense but I disagree with them, because they only make sense when taken from the perspective of SMT5's authors. Who imo, are nowhere near as well-read as Ryutaro Ito from the first two SMT games. Strange Journey is prob the only semi-recent SMT game where the writing quality is almost up to par with the SNES originals but that's due to Strange Journey being the last game that still had remnants of the original SMT crew working on the game. Nocturne actually had a different team altogether who are largely the same people who did SMT5 which is why the games share thematic elements that I just have never liked.

Such as this insistence of Demi Devil Human hybrids. While sure the Nahobino is a resurrected God of sorts (Which Krizz has interpreted as Jesus. I disagree coz Jesus is just a human, deified as a god 400 years after his death.), I feel that these Devil God hybrid protags completely misses the intention of what the classic Megaten games were, where you were just a guy with a gun, paired up with an occultist female who get pulled into a conflict between demons vs angels after a Goddess figurehead gets sacrificed to free up enough energy for these mythical beings to cross over & redigitize themselves on to our physical plane.
This created a sense of urgency, where you must learn how to adapt to your surroundings, in order to survive.
The actual dungeon layouts themselves were alien in nature with the first two games using dungeon design that looked similar to a 1980s interpretation of what futurized computer technology would look like.
One of the few genius things that SMT3 did was to reverse course on the futurism and bring the world back to how the ancients may have viewed their surroundings with dungeons which are completely governed by fractal shapes with half of the dungeons reassembling an Astral plane instead of the Earthly environments that they were supposed to represent.




The classic SMT games had this feeling of you being just a dude with a gun, who had to resort to calling on powers greater than himself which eventually results in you choosing a side between the factions in order to make it to the end. SMT2 even makes it clear to you that the SMT1 protagonist chose Neutrality, which in SMT2 actually resulted in a much more tyrannical world that's completely under the rule of a Catholic-like authority, with a Jewish god ruling dominion over all due to how he's empowered by peoples' belief in his omnipotence.

Whereas SMT3 & 5's Demon/God protags have you functioning more as a God entity yourself who tips the scales of the conflict towards one of the 3 braindead factions that you're given.

This is just the philosophical differences of the SMT games, I'll get to the gameplay part later.
Nes Megaten games basically just followed the outline of the novel. Although they too had a more survival aspect to them. You actually get your entire arm bitten off by a demon during Megami Tensei 2 NES. In the pc game, the lead heroine gets raped & eaten by demons and it's actually shown to you through drawn cutscenes. Or maybe it was the goddess figure since every main SMT game has a goddess figure who gets murdered during the story, even SMT5 had one, except she resurrects as an Angel and joins your party for a bit.

The following quote is something I saw you say in another thread, but it relates more to this thread so I'm posting a reply here.

I'm actully a big megaten fan. I think SMT V is actually great, and if you play it like I did at least, then I think it offers a good challenge. The game has a lot of quality of life changes that people seemed to bitch about it being made easier but I think it actually had decent balance. That said, I played on hard and was always underleveled compared to the bosses. That's key, as for whatever stupid reason levels matter a lot in the game and if you get too high it just becomes piss easy. I think they fucked that up. Game has like no postgame though and I'm not paying for the dlc.

For comparison, I also played Nocturne (on hard) for the first time last year and I think V is harder except for maybe a couple of bosses in Nocturne. It's pretty different though. In V, I basically just fought bosses and rarely did random battles, while in Nocturne, the difficulty came from staying alive through the dungeons where random battles were unavoidable. Both games require strategy in different ways with a different focus to the gameplay.

For V though, I just find the loop of getting to a boss, getting wiped in a turn or two, adjusting your team and then finally overcoming that boss to be extremely satisfying. If you grind levels though, you just ruin it, which is what I imagine most people did (if they even played on hard). I mean, this is a series where I actually use everything they give me as opposed to many games where you won't use items or half the skills you have.

That actually sounds much more like Pokemon than it does a SMT game. In Pokemon games, the entire gameplay flow revolves around bosses that you have to defeat because they impede your path.
You defeat them by collecting or evolving stronger pokemon, and devising pokemon teams to take down rival pokemon teams. The entire Pokemon postgame even revolves around you forging ultimate teams to pit against other human player controlled trainers. You only waste time on random battles to recruit more pokemon or to make them evolve. You don't really need to do any random battles at all, save for the ones who block your path.

This is basically Shin Megami Tensei 5's game structure, it's just an Edgelord version of Pokemon.
Exclusive to a system that sells Pokemon, lol. (That's a death sentence imo. Don't ever go toe to toe with Pokemon on Pokemon's home turf.)

Which is why ancient fans like myself who were playing SMT games since the 90s aren't too fond with the changes.
(I'm still only in my 30s though. The real og SMT fans were playing them since the 80s, and are prob 60s or 70 something yrs old now lol. Those classic games appealed to a much older crowd.)

I don't play SMT games to just walk up to rival gyms and destroy their gym leaders. (I'm using Pokemon terminology to prove a point.) I liked them for that slow descent to insanity that SMT1,2,IF, 3 Nocturne, & Strange Journey all had. Where the dungeons seemingly go on forever and half of the traps make no damn sense at all. You kept preserving though, just to make it to the end. No matter which ending you get.
When I first played Nocturne in Japanese, I got the worst ending, which was also the most boring ending. I didn't get to rebirth the world with a philosophy at all. The final boss even taunted me for being just a stupid reactionary animal who killed off the other factions who actually had goals & dreams.
I was going for the Yuko ending (which is labeled as Neutral, but in reality it's actually the Jesus Christ navigating humanity behind the veil ending.) but I fucked up.
I even fuck up her ending all the time when playing in English, because you walk the fine line of screwing up and getting the worst ending. It's the hardest ending to get imo. Even harder than True Demon Lucifer ending.

May I add, I am not at all a fan of SMT5's true ending where they combine Lucifer & Neutral into the same ending. Yakumo comes off as Gnostic or a Jesus-like figure because he never once believes anything that's told to him. He always searches for the truth veiled behind the lies. We don't finally understand this though until after he's been killed & Nu Wa reveals to you his intention all along. Which shows that he figured a way outside of the False Oppositions that the SMT games always enforce upon you.
Too bad SMT5's writers are so incoherent that they ruin what could've been a decent plot by making Lucifer the Jesus-like figure.

It doesn't help that Lucifer is always playing the role of Sophia in the SMT games. Sophia is the main goal of Gnosticsm, to return to Sophia, a return to Wisdom. Sophia is actually a character in SMT5 but all she does is manage the demon compendium, ayy lmao.
It's as though atlus just randomly picked an entity out of a bag and chose her to do menial tasks when the entire SMT5 plot should've revolved around her or have her suddenly appear to awaken humanity like Lucifer did.


I also like SMT4/Apocalypse whatever it's called, but that game is in some weird middleground where it's halfway modern, halfway classic. Probably why SMT5 is much more popular than 4.)

Haven't played it yet, but looking forward to trying it out. I'm actually still only part way through XB1 which I need to get back onto.

I finally played Xenogears a couple of years ago and holy crap, did it live up to it's reputation. I don't think there's much else out there like it. I also loved XBX. Definitely need to try out Xenosaga too at some point.

I played Xenogears as a kid, and I didn't understand shit about the plot lol. It was actually a post by Krizz that made me finally understand it. I still thought the plot was stupid, but I was finally able to admit that the plot made sense within the context of the game. It wasn't until much later when I played the Xenoblade 2 games that the whole Gnostic theme of the Xeno games finally became much more apparent to me.
(XB2 & Torna are actually two different games with completely different combat systems, but they share some of the same characters and functions as a prequel to XB2.)

Xb2 & Xb1 both take elements from Xenogears but they focused the plot on certain aspects from Xenogears rather than trying to make one large game out of all of its ideas.
XB1 is a generic standard take on Gnosticism. I won't elaborate since you seemed to have not finished that game yet. I'll just say that any plot that follows a basic Gnostic philosophical perspective would hit them just as straightforwardly as Xenoblade 1 did.


XB2 was quite different because that game is saying that the Demiurge doesn't necessarily have to be evil.
It's just the entity that created the world you're standing in, but he is not the All-Creator god.
You never see the All Creator in any Xeno game, or even interact with it.
Except for Xenogears which did have an energy wave of consciousness that described itself as a creator.
XB2 somewhat references that Miang plot line from Xenogears where she engineers human civilization only to later destroy it, and sacrifice it to Deus. I'd elaborate but it's spoiler territory. I hated XB2 up until I got to that part and was like damn I wasn't expecting any of this. Although Xenoblade X's characters (which isn't related to the Xb games yet.) seemed to have come from a similar civilization & setting.

XB2 expanded on the Church plot from Xenogears. A lot of Americans read this as anti-Christian when the games are actually saying that the Church themselves are fake cristturds. There's even a convo that mimics the Palestinian Israeli conflict and I was amazed by how smart Rex's and co's take were on it.
Instead of doing the stupid "American Cuckservative I side with Israel or American LOLberal
I side with Palestine" crap. How the XB2 cast rationalize it, is that they believe it's a conflict that's used & profited off of, by political actors and factions who wish to use the plights of many for their individual gain.
I can't even link to you directly to the cutscene in question coz nobody posted that exact scene. It's the scene that plays when you're about to enter the cathedral.
It appears that most gamers don't really understand the subtext of the conversation lol.

That's some surprisingly smart & astute observations coming from a game that's constantly lambasted as brainless tits & ass, lol.
As I said though, barely nobody actually talks about XB2 at all during XB2 internet conversations.
I even see a lot of people call it a Movie game with no gameplay which is hilarious to me coz I played it for 400 something hours and only about 30 of those hours were story related lol.


I'm not a Gnostic btw. (That's Xed.) It's just my understanding of it from what I played from vidya games, and from what I've read in pdfs.

I can understand that. It is heavy on dialogue scenes which are kinda on a visual novel level. I don't think it's too bad as you go through the dungeons, but the beginning and end of each chapter definitely have a lot of talking.

It's probably like Cyber Sleuth where the story eventually gets much more interesting as the game plays on.
I was bored as fuck by Digimon's story until the Eaters finally show up and its revealed that Digimon aren't man-made computer programs at all. They're actually living beings from another world and that world is slowly eating up our reality, to either merge with ours or replace it.

It would be good to have it on switch to give more people a chance to play it, but I don't know if it's likely to happen.

Have you played Undernauts Labyrinth of Yomi?

That game's plot sounds amazing. It reminds me of the actual temple excursions which go on in Antartica to this very day, where Big Corporations just send in random people to die inside of the temples while searching for whatever the fuck they're searching for.

I love the character creator, it reminds me of a much more advanced version of Laplace No Ma.
I like that the player picked the grizzled protag coz it's who I would've picked too. Either him or the female.

[NewWorldOrder]

The OG fanbase focused more on SMT's occultism & mythos far moreso than the modern fanbase does.
The modern fanbase wastes far too much time debating over the completely uninteresting conflict of Law vs Chaos and how Neutral is always the most sensible option.
While I agree that within the context of Megashit games, that Neutrality is the best option. That's more due to god awful writing rather than a choice made through logic & facts. Rather it's a choice that's forced upon you.

Yeah, I don't like the whole Neutral is canon junk that people preach. Personally, the ending I chose is what matters, not what is considered 'right'. A little different, but I remember playing Devil Survivor 2 and my ending was where they basically create a new world to start over. Then I find out that the canon ending was just resetting shit to how things were before. I thought that was dumb, and then I play the extra story in the 3ds version and it turns out that 'canon' ending didn't work, and they end up doing the new world ending but with elements of the other endings mixed in.

Strange Journey is prob the only semi-recent SMT game where the writing quality is almost up to par with the SNES originals but that's due to Strange Journey being the last game that still had remnants of the original SMT crew working on the game. Nocturne actually had a different team altogether who are largely the same people who did SMT5 which is why the games share thematic elements that I just have never liked.

I only played Nocturne for the first time last year so I kind of played that and 5 back to back. I didn't really like the story or characters in either game to be honest. My first proper SMT was Strange Journey which really got me into the series beyond Persona. I also love SMT4 a lot and it's probably my favourite.

That actually sounds much more like Pokemon than it does a SMT game. In Pokemon games, the entire gameplay flow revolves around bosses that you have to defeat because they impede your path.
You defeat them by collecting or evolving stronger pokemon, and devising pokemon teams to take down rival pokemon teams. The entire Pokemon postgame even revolves around you forging ultimate teams to pit against other human player controlled trainers. You only waste time on random battles to recruit more pokemon or to make them evolve. You don't really need to do any random battles at all, save for the ones who block your path.

I can see the comparison there, but I haven't touched Pokemon since Y and I didn't like that one at all. I always found the games too easy and was never interested in the multiplayer. I agree that probably starting with 4, SMT has trended in that direction and I can see why you wouldn't like that if you're more interested in the dungeon crawling aspects. From what I've played, Strange Journey has the most enjoyable gameplay overall, but I do like what they did in 4 where (like you said) they strike a balance with the team building/pokemon aspects. I wouldn't put 5 anywhere near the top of SMT games, but I enjoyed it for what it is.

I loved pokemon so much as a kid that I always have a small desire to try it again, but Y burned me so bad that I'm not sure it's worth the time.

I even fuck up her ending all the time when playing in English, because you walk the fine line of screwing up and getting the worst ending. It's the hardest ending to get imo. Even harder than True Demon Lucifer ending.

I also got the worst ending first time through. Huge letdown. Didn't even feel like I actually finished the game. I felt like the endings were all kinda the same which is the same problem that 5 has. Just pick your flavour. Last boss of the True Demon ending made me work for it at least.

Have you played Undernauts Labyrinth of Yomi?

I haven't but it looks really cool. Haven't actually played any of Experience's DRPGs even though they always look great. I seem to have this weird thing where I love certain genres, but don't actually play that many of the games (SRPG, DRPG).

Another great DRPG that got pretty much ignored was Dungeon Travelers 2. No one can see past the lewd anime girls and realise that the actual gameplay is amazing. Purely from a gameplay perspective, I think it's the best DRPG out there. They didn't even release 2-2 in English so I just gave up and bought the Japanese version. Only problem is that both games are Vita exclusive so they're not that accessible.

[Jack]

Yeah, I don't like the whole Neutral is canon junk that people preach.

To b e fair, Neutrality is emphasized in the games. (It's really only SMT1 & 2 that was anti neutral.) It was like the only satisfying ending in Nocturne, aside for the True Demon ending, which was so badass & different from the norm that it gets a pass.
Too bad SMT5 combined both endings into one. I mean sure it makes sense, Lucifer killed God prior to the game starting and the entire conflict with the Throne was just the last remnants of the old order which had to be destroyed. It just reeks of damn anime bullshit to me.

I actually like Xed's interpretation the best where he claims that Lucifer is basically part of the false binary, made to look like a revolution but you're actually just serving the same exact system of the beast. Not unlike the realife American Antifa, who basically act as attack dogs for Big Corporate interests, while pretending to fight against the system. His interpretation makes sense with every SMT except SMT5.

He also confirmed to me that in real life, Sophia's legends were rewritten on to Lucifer by the Catholic Church to demonize the act of attaining knowledge. Which is what the Goddess Sophia represents, and which is why I find it so damn funny that Sophia is just a mere steward in SMT5 with nearly zero relevance to the plot lol.

A little different, but I remember playing Devil Survivor 2 and my ending was where they basically create a new world to start over. Then I find out that the canon ending was just resetting shit to how things were before. I thought that was dumb, and then I play the extra story in the 3ds version and it turns out that 'canon' ending didn't work, and they end up doing the new world ending but with elements of the other endings mixed in.

I didn't bother with that one. It was too goofy & anime for me. By which I mean, that it just makes up a bunch of anime hocus pocus whereas the original Devil Survivor, felt like a reboot of the original SMT series & Persona 1, where there's a large focus on occult, old world knowledge which the entire plot of Devil Survivor 1 is structured around.

Devil Survivor is one of my fave Megatens. It's actually my most fave Megaten by a large margin.
I don't even know what my 2nd & 3rd fave would be, coz none of them even compare to Devil Survivor 1 and I've been at this megaten shit since the mid 90s.

DS1 was the best mixture of modernization while still paying enough tribute to the old games from the 80s & 90s to the point that it felt as though that game were a passing of the torch. I even bought the Overclocked version on 3ds where about the only thing they added was voice acting. DS1 had great tactical gameplay where the fights play out like a SMT game, and the story is the best that it's ever been in a Megaten game.
The quality of the writing is like whatever. What did make DS1's story so engaging is how much choice & consequences it has. Everybody reacts to what you say & do and the entire plot changes, based off of your choices. DS1 did it much better than Tactics Orge LUCT did. TO's problem is that characters completely changed their personality depending on the choices you've made whereas in DS1, characters don't go through schizo personality shifts. They either fight with or against you depending on the choices you've made.

I like how going The True Demon route, even forced Yuzu to rebel against you lol. Every single faction made sense. The Law faction was led by one of the better written characters, so they didn't come off as insane as they usually do. (Especially in SMT3 where the Law-ish faction was Chiaki.)
The Neutral faction was cool, coz they were just a bunch of dudes who wanted to find a way out of the city. Anyone can relate with that. The Chaos faction were a bunch of edgelords as usual, but the Chaos leader was actually a smart guy, and I could imagine being won over by his rhetoric.

Digimon Cyber Sleuth Complete Edition kinda somewhat feels like an unofficial successor to DS1 to me, mainly coz it's using the same exact art style. There's a large focus on exploring Tokyo and the ost kicks ass. Cyber Sleuth's ost is composed by Masafumi Takada, the guy who used to do Grasshopper osts & the main composer for the Danganronpa games. The music sounds a lot like Danganronpa, but some of the boss themes sound like Killer7 themes.

I only played Nocturne for the first time last year so I kind of played that and 5 back to back. I didn't really like the story or characters in either game to be honest. My first proper SMT was Strange Journey which really got me into the series beyond Persona. I also love SMT4 a lot and it's probably my favourite.

Now that's a rare opinion, but it's one that I agree with. I love SMT4. Xed claims that the Apocalypse sequel is actually the best SMT. (I've only played it through emulation so I wouldn't know. I got rid of the 3ds during 2017 so I could get me a PS4. I was on the fence between PS4 & Switch, but I already bought Yakuza 0 so I had to get a ps4. Plus the ps4 was only $118 brand new which came with two Call of Duty games that I immediately traded in. (LOL!) I do play COD, but I haven't really liked any of them since Black ops 2.

SMT4 actually tried to be more like the old games. It only sold about 500k copies total though, so I don't blame them for wildly changing the formula with SMT5. Which right now is at about 880k copies sold. I'm not sure how much of that is full price though since you can buy it new right new for $49.99 and last month you could even get the steel edition for $39.99 at gamestop, walmart & amazon. it's just that, most stores never had the game in their inventory anyway.

If they did, they only had like 2 copies. I saw Walmart with 2 copies of the standard edition for $39.99 and it was still there over christmas. Meanwhile their entire stack of World War Z games was already gone. They had about 20 copies.

I can see the comparison there, but I haven't touched Pokemon since Y and I didn't like that one at all. I always found the games too easy and was never interested in the multiplayer. I agree that probably starting with 4, SMT has trended in that direction and I can see why you wouldn't like that if you're more interested in the dungeon crawling aspects.

Was SMT4 Pokemon-like? I don't recall. SMT games have always had Fiend like monsters. That's not what I'm labeling as Pokemon. SMT5 feels like Pokemon to me (i haven't played it yet, but I also have zero interest in it.)
because most of the game takes place outside of dungeons, and the meat of the game seems to be fighting boss encounters, which function similarly to a Pokemon Gym.

I liked SMT4 because it felt like an updated version of SMT1 & 2. SMT4 went back to the series roots. it's just the artstyle that looked completely different. As well as some of the character writing, such as that forced Weeb girl who reads Rose of Versailes. Who seems to be a quasi love interest of sorts. What I recall, is that you'red forced into caring for her when previous SMT games have never done that. The female character usually die way before you even get to know them proper. Or in the case of that naked girl you meet in SMT1, she's later revealed to be a Demon who serves Lucifer. (I think she was Lilith.)

From what I've played, Strange Journey has the most enjoyable gameplay overall, but I do like what they did in 4 where (like you said) they strike a balance with the team building/pokemon aspects. I wouldn't put 5 anywhere near the top of SMT games, but I enjoyed it for what it is.

I really don't know what Pokemon elements that SMT4 had, coz I recall that game being a dungeon crawler. Not to the same magnitude as Strange Journy, but SMT4 had dungeons that were similar in design to Soul Hackers.
May I add, I find it amusing that Nemissa is featured as a Sega character in the Sega wiki.
https://sega.fandom.com/wiki/Sega_Wiki
(She's the same blue haired girl who's featured at this site's banner for some reason.)
Which is weird that Sega would consider Nemissa as a Sega character, coz she's only been in one game, and due to her story she really could only be in one game. She only looks the way she does, because she possessed your best friend, who's a hot chick lol.

I loved pokemon so much as a kid that I always have a small desire to try it again, but Y burned me so bad that I'm not sure it's worth the time.

I never actually really played much Pokemon. About the only one that I did play quite a bit was Pearl, which ironically enough just got remade on Switch. I want to get into Pokemon though coz damn near everyone in my Switch friend's list plays it. (I have a relatively large switch friend list when compared to most.) They play all the Pokemon games. I even know a guy who is the son of the former La Eme mafia boss, who plays nothing but Pokemon games. He has them all except for the Mystery Dungeon Pokemon game. He doesn't have Pokken either. (which looks amazing.)

Interestingly, I haven't seen a single person buy Pokemon Legends Arceus yet.
EDIT: I spoke too soon lol. By 9 pm, I saw at least 9 different people playing Legends Arceus with 3 of them playing it at the same time. yes, of course that Mexican mobster guy is one of the day 1 Legend's adopters lol.
_____
I'm guessing it's coz most of them are still working on Brillian & Shining Pearl. Yup, they're those type of Pokemon fans who always buy both versions. I'm pretty sure I'll start seeing a bunch of Legends players within a month or two coz it was the same way with the Pearl/Diamond remakes. Hardly anyone bought them at launch, but now it's one of the most played games I see outside of stuf like Mario Kart, Smash Bros & World War Z. (Plus the many people who play Fortnite & FIFA.)

The problem with Pokemon to me is how goddamn low budget the games look. Even Digimon Cyber Sleuth looks 2 generations ahead of both Sword/Shield & Arceus, even though Cyber Sleuth was originally a Vita Portable game.

Have you played Undernauts Labyrinth of Yomi?

I haven't but it looks really cool. Haven't actually played any of Experience's DRPGs even though they always look great. I seem to have this weird thing where I love certain genres, but don't actually play that many of the games (SRPG, DRPG).

I was about to buy that yesterday. I had to 'settle' with Ys 9 Monstrum Nox because it was far cheaper. The tax & shipping rates are insane up here in the North West so while on paper I had more than enough credit on my account. The added expenses meant that I was a few cents off. So I had to get Ys 9 which is only $39.99 right now, but Ys9 is an amazing game. It more than makes up for its poor Pokemon-quality visuals with its gameplay. The gameplay & combat is vastly improved from Ys 8. Well for one thing, the maps are actually big enough to explore now. There's also much more emphasis on platforming, which somewhat brings it back to my fave era of Ys games, that Oath of Felghana engine games.

Another great DRPG that got pretty much ignored was Dungeon Travelers 2. No one can see past the lewd anime girls and realise that the actual gameplay is amazing. Purely from a gameplay perspective, I think it's the best DRPG out there. They didn't even release 2-2 in English so I just gave up and bought the Japanese version. Only problem is that both games are Vita exclusive so they're not that accessible.

There's a lot of hentai-ish Drpgs I want to try out like Mary Skelter 2, & Death End Re:Quest 2 and what not.

I just don't see myself paying full price for them whereas I was fully intending to buy Undernauts for fool price, coz I love everything about the way that game looks & feels. It reminds me of classic Horror Dungeon crawls like Wax Works, which is something that you don't really see much of anymore.

Undernauts starts out with your entire party being eaten alive by a demon chick. They don't show it though, it's just written text but the overall atmosphere is as dark as something like SMT Strange Journey.