KEKK!
"Come muh brudders, let us thou wait for Father Clergyman of Cathedral@tm to bestow upon us a seer's eye that neither you or I have been graciously bestowed with such gifts to walk upon the path of the virtuous.
It is as thou bequeaths for, I Am that I am.
Holy Justice Reigns... In the Name of Harman."
https://voca.ro/15zZWMWjepw7
I but channel the will of the gods of old, by flatlining my rationality through the use of alcohol. Or as I like to call it THE GIFT.
I wish that Xed had gotten recorded evidence for when Suda confirmed to him that the Yayoi's are all the same person. The most interesting character I've seen from video games by far, because she's basically a sociopathic mad woman but nobody within the game's universe is aware of what she's done coz everybody else from Moonlight Syndrome is dead. The few who survived, got killed by Tetsuguro in SC, and then the detective who was working on the Moon murders case was also killed by him.
That is a regret I have, that I didn't really come prepared because I was told that Suda would be in that place the same day I showed up. If I had time to prepare, I would have brought a slave to film the interaction, but oh well.
Someone recorded the panel portion but they did not record any of the audience questions.
Thankfully I managed to get some autographs and a picture with Suda so I don't have to deal with retards denying I was even there lol.
I framed the question as Yayoi from Moonlight Syndrome and FSR being my favourite character, and wondering wether or not she would show up again. (I was being cheeky because I was in a room full of people, and just asking for confirmation would sound too nerdy LOL!)
His response (through the translator) was that Suda was impressed with my knowledge of his old games, and that since I liked her so much he would think about bringing her back.
Now it is surely random happenstance that Yayoi actually did show up in Kurayami Dance.
I'm not saying he did that because I asked, but yeah, he did that because I asked.
To be fair though, Yayoi Hanayama and Yayoi Itsushima being the same person is not really contested at all. Hell it was even brought up in the GPara interview, subtly sure, but Yayoi is definetly listed among the "familiar characters" crossing over from MS to FSR.
https://dijehtranslations.wordpress.com ... -and-rain/
Q23
Yayoi, Sumio and Baian Sayaka who committed suicide…These are important names for people who played your older games. How connected are the worlds of Silver and Moonlight in your opinion?
A23
Everything is in the same world. Everything is connected.
Except Fire Pro Wrestling.
These three games are connected though.
What's usually contested, is that Sumio from Moonlight Syndrome might have been one of the many manufactured Sumios from Lospass Island. Which I guess is possible. As I was discussing in the fan translations thread, 25W shows you multiple shiroyabus living wildly different lives. I don't see why those Sumios couldn't have lived substantially different lives as well.
viewtopic.php?p=2479#p2479
I personally think they just so happened to share a name though.
That shit will just never stop being funny to me. What the hell makes that Hyena so special?
I mentioned somewhere on the old forum (though I'm not gonna look that up now, I'll eventually reiterate it into an actual article) that I don't believe the lospass hyena story to be 100% truthful. Other crazy shit like talking alligators is in the game and noone takes that at face value as a real thing that actually inhabits Lospass Island, yet for some reason everyone takes the hyenas at face value despite how absurd it would be for Tokio to literally phisically fly out of lospass with an actual hyena tucked under his jacket or something lol.
I think "Hyena" was just a codeword for some kind of ancient Sundance supertechnology. That's just my opinion though, I'm not saying this as a statement of fact.
In Killer7, the word "Hyena" is the codename for the assassins from the International Ethics Committee.
Shirt - Power Lunch
Action - Sitting calmly on a cushion
"The owner, Fukushima, is mixed up in all sorts of things. Even the
International Ethics Committee is getting involved. Chief, you watch yourself.
The Ethics agents, or Hyenas, are a motley crew of rejects. But the assassins
trained in the Core? Now, those guys are for real. They're after the Yakumo
Party Cabinet Policy. Or the Yakumo for short. It's just a bunch of paper but
it can change the world. UN Party, my friend."
Xed said that the original SC game's interpretation of the Silver Eyes was an Urban Myth. They believed in fantasy, which probably didn't dwell with reality. It makes sense. Look at the word "God". Damn near nobody is speaking about the same person, place or thing when uttering the word god.
Yeah that's essentially my take, my understanding is that Silver Eyes are just ancient science that has been reappropriated by modern day elites as a product that you sell.
Granted it does have a spiritual element in that it opens your eyes to the world beyond, but that's not too dissimilar to how technology is depicted as being able to summon Demons from the netherworld in Shin Megami Tensei. Which in turn is not too different from technology in our day to day real world lol (the internet is full of dead people, to the point where they probably outnumber living users).
Even then, the world beyond exists regardless of the silver eye. Tokio is able to commune with remnant psyches / spirits before ever getting a silver eye just for going through Kamui Maspro education. If we go back even further (though it's debatable wether or not that's relevant obviously) Mika & Yukari from Twilight Syndrome are aòsp able to interact with them as well despite being normal civillians, though that might have been the influence of Chisato Itsushima (who just so happens to be a zoroastrian angel LOL!) Ryo doesen't count because there's several hints that he might have been part of the Kamui Maspro himself.
These games tell you a bunch of contradicting shit and I've seen this interpreted as a mistake in the writing, but I think that's because people are used to Metal Gear Solid style writing where every character is a talking head who is somehow aware of every single piece of information in the world, and whenever they are lying they make a point of outright telling you lol.
In the real world everyone gets shit wrong, misunderstands things or outright lies all the time. That's why the idea of silver eyes making you immortal is so confusing.
The only example we actually have from TSC is Tetsugoro telling the story of how Uminosuke Hachisuka ended up with the silver eyes and "became young again" but that's just his perspective. From what we know from later games, it's more likely that Uminosuke sort of body-jacked his son Kaoru, rather than his body becoming young again and somehow similar enough to his son that he could realistically pose as him in the public eye. (Kamui Fujiwara also seems to have awakened his silver eyes but he never speaks through the game, so we never get his perspective.)
In the new TSC chapter and in FSR we get more details from Tokio and already he explains it as "the program for death being put on hold" (I'm paraphrasing) which is different from eternal youth. Sundance Ritz definetly appears to be immortal, but she's an old lady, forever trapped in an old crippled body. FSR seems to make fun of the idea of eternal youth actually, with the whole myth about the magic rain making people young again which of course never happens, and Ritz is forced to keep spinning her wheels eternally (as in her wheelchair lol).
In 25W, the doctors who implant Tokio with a new silver eye straight up said that the whole deal about immortality is just a myth, and silver eyes are just massive data repositories. I don't think that's fully correct either though. I think it is technically possible to achieve immortality through a Silver Eye, by doing what Sundance Shot & Kousuke Kurumizawa did. That is to say that both characters (or at least I think so, but the FSR fanbook confirms my theory that Shot has no physical form.) exist as information within the network, much like the ancestral Kamui himself. Which is why I find it more likely that Uminosuke transposed his spirit into the body of his son, rather than just randomly achieving eternal youth. That's essentially what Sundance is doing in FSR, where he takes over one of the Sumio stock.
As a sidenote, I think that's essentially what the main conflict of FSR revolves around. Shot says that in a way he himself is the bomb. I think the plane keeps blowing up because Shot is not allowed to leave the island through a Sumio stock, and Toriko & Shot's wager is all about wether or not Sumio (Kodai) himself can serve as the island "saviour" by carrying the memory of Lospass in the outside world. If Kodai had failed, Shot probably would have repeated the cycle of trying to leave the island inside a Sumio stock, only for the plane to blow up, because knowledge of Lospass island is not allowed to exist in the outside world. (Which I think is what the game is getting at after the credits when we are told that Lospass island vanished / was hidden. I don't think it matters if the island itself was fully blown up or not. The point is that it has been excised from history in a similar way to what the Heinous Crime Unit does to criminals.)
Even the nature of Kamui is debated, with TSC describing him as just a random hitman employed by the FSO that TRO/CCO and ELBOW decided to use as the template to build the next generation of children.
In FSR & 25W Kamui seems to be an ancestral entity that actually predates the Kamui Maspro MKUltra mind control project, some sort of personification of the human capability for violence. Which would reframe the Kamui & Ayame Maspros as ELBOW trying to control and weaponize a pre-existing entity, rather than creating the project from scratch. Which is what the placebo prologue of 25W tells you, with Morishima explaining the Kamui system.
Kurumizawa himself acts as a Kamui cultist who has ascended humanity by becoming a digital man (he hides in the game's HUD LOL! It's even hinted at that Kurumizawa himself is actually the character you play as.) and claims to commune with him. He acts as a foil to all the systems of control in the 25W by gaslighting everyone, and his objective seem to be to just kill everything lol.
Not in the sense of committing genocide, "Kill the life" actually refers to the "lifestyle", "everyday life" of the 25th ward which is engineered from the top down to control people.
In his TSA cameo, he claims to want to destroy the concept of "justice" in and of itself. In RGB he claims to want to kill the life, but only as the first step in killing the past.
idk whatever the fuck sundance shot is but it seems to me that his computer/body has a fuckton of viruses so he isn't willing to stick anything in his usb port (eyepatch)
That is a very interesting interpretation and I would honestly take it as correct, if it weren't for the fact that the Fanbook as it was translated by GR seems to hint at the fact that the eyepatch is just hiding his silver eye.
https://www.paradisehotel51.com/sin/201 ... l-fanbook/
In short, it is due to Tokio, who obtained a silver eye by chance, arriving on the island that absurd
events happen one after another through the power of God. But who is the other person that
possesses a silver eye? There certainly was a man with an eyepatch...
Granted that's not the fucking bible because Sundance Ritz also has a silver eye, which would bring the number to three. That same document seems to confirm that Shot doesen't have a physical form at all. So in reality nothing is set in stone at all, which is partially why I'm glad there's some people who actually want to discuss these games now lol.
Most people just understand these older games as no more heroes prequels, and the silver eye as some sort of shounen power up that makes you super strong.
Ironically, I don't even think they're so important in the overall context of things, they're basically a macguffin that sets events into motion, but it's an interesting subject to discuss because it ties into so many other aspects.
Flower, Sun and Rain might imply that they, in some way, distort the passage of time when more than one of them are in one place but it's very vague.
That's an interesting point because Kurumizawa is shown as distorting the flow of time and he definetly has a silver eye, considering he was employed as an Observer under the Regional Adjustment Bureau (all Observers are equipped with mass produced silver eyes because their purpose is to monitor and absorb all that information, which is eventually stored in the supercomputer you see at the end.)
I personally don't think that the time distorsion in Lospass was actually created by the "power of god" as Tokio says but I elaborated on that in the fan translations thread. I think Shot's explanation that you're living through the memories of different Sumios makes more sense. What's more likely to me, is that the silver eye was the conduit through which that phoenomena could be experienced, but the presence of Tokio acted as interference in that system.
We also know that the people behind the Shelter Kids program were allegedly never able to replicate that ceremony and induce ocular silverization in the children they experimented on. Which raises a few questions, considering the Kamui from the Decoyman and Lifecut chapters (According to the Case 4.5 short story, for however canon that is, a person seperate from Format Kamui named Kamui Fujiwara) is depicted with two silver eyes in all of his illustrations.
The novel just gives Fujiwara a name, but he was always a different person than the original Uehara Kamui. For once, the obvious fact that Uehara Kamui died, LOL!
But also, the Kamui in Decoyman (the chapter title itself tells you what he is, a decoy) is said to have been institutionalized for 20 years, but also, that he was in the same university as Ayame Shimohira, a woman who could not possibly be older than 30.
So it's obvious that that story is bullshit, which is what should clue you in to the fact that Kamui is being manufactured and is not just one person.
Essentially, what we know is that silver eyes were discovered among the Sundance people at some point. ELBOW's purpose is to reverse engineer Sundance technology / spirituality in order to mass produce the silver eye. (Which is why ELBOW is "disbanded" after the events of FSR, because they achieved mass production to a level where they had no need for Lospass Island anymore. Which is also why I believe ELBOW was just the arm of a larger, unseen organization.) For that purpose they instigate a war between the FSO (essentially Sundance Shot's trojan horse in Japanese politics) and the TRO/CCO alliance (which in and of itself was a trojan horse for the Hachisuka clan power play). This is what Nakategawa is referring to when he claims that there are no factions, there is only ELBOW.
The end result of this conflict is the Sundance genocide, & the silver case where Format Kamui (an unnamed aboriginal Sundance) attempted to kill the high command of the TRO/CCO alliance.
It is unknown which event happened first, and which was retaliation, but it resulted in Format Kamui getting killed alongside most of the TRO/CCO high command, and Hachisuka obtaining silver eyes.
Through the events of TSC, we see the result of the first experiment of silver eye mass production, where the inert eyes (which are harvested from hyenas) are implanted into mental clones of Format Kamui (a Sundance) which are mindbroken children from the Shelter Children Policy. the TRO/CCO is responsible for the Kamui Maspro, while the FSO financed the Ayame Maspro project in retaliation. (Again, both sides were pitted against each other by ELBOW in order to speed up progress through competition.)
The unintended result was to create a population of unstable people who could randomly awake as killers and channel some ancestral will of violence also called Kamui.
(I will remind you that "Kamui Uehara" is just a name that TRO/CCO people came up with. That was not the man's actual name, which is why Sundance Shot does not recognize the name at all in FSR. Lospass natives probably did not speak japanese lol.)
Kamuis and Ayames are also naturally attracted to one another to the point where they keep reproducing amongst themselves. Which is probably why Shiroyabu is called "Kamui and Ayame's child" in 25W. I don't think it's meant to be taken literally, just that a new type of mindscape has been created within the system by creating a mate for Kamui.
While the project was considered a failure because none of the children achieved eye silverization after being implanted with inert hyena eyes, it's not impossible that some of them would eventually awake (or "go woke" lol) activating their silver eyes. Which is probably what happened to Kamui Fujiwara, and why it was so important to take him down, despite him being little more than a vegetable.
In FSR, the silver eye manufacturing is completed in the Euro Maspro by straight up manufacturing people from scratch in an effort to replicate Sundance society. (Shot tells you at the end that all Sundances shared the same genetic make-up, again I am going by memory but it's more or less what he says.)
The terrorist Sundance Shot exists as a glitch in the matrix where he essentially exploited the Euro Maspro to keep existing & delaying the "erasure" of Lospass Island but he is unable to escape. Which is probably why Sumio Kodai (who seemingly was the template for the various Sumios you see) had to be brought to Lospass, to be able to carry it within himself to the outside world. ("Flower, Sun and Rain is you!")
ELBOW disbands at the end of FSR because their goal of achieving the mass production silver eyes is complete.
In 25W, silver eyes are just a tool that is freely used to assert control. Namely within the Regional Adjustment Bureau sovrastructure, with Observers being equipped with silver eyes to act as human tapes that monitor & regulate the societal structure enforced by Divers and postmen. The unintended effect this time being Kousuke Kurumizawa using the silver eye to ascend to a higher plane of life as a digital man, where he comes in contact with the ancestral Kamui and acts as a cultist aiming to destroy the structure of society itself. Most of the events in the 25th ward happen specifically because of Kurumizawa & Kosaka, who is described as a Frontier (FSO) loyalist.
The reason why many of the main characters specifically try to avoid the awakening of Kamui, is probably because the havoc he would wreck by completely destroying the structure of society might be just as bad as the surveillance/control stated instated by the "powers that be" (which we don't know anything about at all. Stephan Charbonie is the designer of the 25th ward but in FSR, he is described as being a lower employee than Edo Macallister lol. Edo was probably the highest ranking official we've ever seen, and he was just a middle manager.)
It's not dissimilar to how the main characters of MGS unwittingly end up perpetrating the status quo, because the big boss world order would just lead to perpetual war & general butchery.
I think the only character we ever see naturally develop silver eyes under specific conditions is Osato from 25th Wards Matchmaker storyline. And this is where I'm not sure if I'm remembering things correctly, I haven't finished that game in a while and I'm currently replaying it. We don't know whether Osato has been subjected to ocular surgery at any point before the start of the game, but what we do know is that he has high "criminal energy". Which opens up a whole other can of worms, because to some extent the idea of criminal potential being an actual, measurable value in a person is obviously meant to be bullshit in universe. We also know that he is the son of Sundance, which presumably refers to Sundance Shot, the rogue leader of the FSO. Sundance Shot and by extension Osato are descended from the Sundance tribe, the natives of Lospass Island, and presumably, so was Format Kamui. That would suggest that only Sundance people have the genetic potential to naturally develop silver eyes.
You're right, we don't know for sure if he ever underwent the surgery, but I just assumed that he did because he is described as an illegitimate Sundance. Aboriginal Sundances undergo eye surgery at age 2, so I just assumed that he did as well. But yes ethnic Sundances were originally the only ones who could "develop" silver eyes (although it still involved a surgical transplant when they were children) which is why the recreation of silver eye technology had to go through several steps before achieving what we see in 25W.
I'm actually not sure wether he's Sundance Shot's illegitimate son, or just the Sundance people in general. The english translation is quite unclear on the subject. @GoldenRakshasa might actually help us out here because the japanese wording might be clearer.
I'm pretty sure that conversation happens somewhere during this chapter, though I am not positive.
I think what "criminal power" refers to is someone's ability to kill & generally violate the order of society, which in turn informs their potential of channelling Kamui (whom is established as some sort of ancient spirit of chaos and "terrorism").
I'm not sure whether (natural) silver eyes are actually a storage device. We know that the artificial one that Tokio got after he had the real one removed appears to record and store data.
I don't think such a thing as a "natural" silver eye ever existed. What changes is wether they remain inert or not, but all eligible partecipants of the Kamui & Ayame maspro did undergo the surgery. It seems that once a silver eye is "activated" it can be freely be taken in or out and it can attatch itself to the body by itself by simply being plugged in.
The Sundances came under attack specifically because they knew how to harvest them, but it still involved some degree of science. Even if you believe the Hyena story to be 100% correct (I personally believe it to be a myth, that is just manifested literally in FSR due to the nature of Lospass Island as a memory), eye transplant surgery is not exactly achieved with sticks, stones, sand and copies of the quran LOL! It implies that in ancient times, the Sundances already had access to a higher level of technology than common humans, at least to the level where eye transplant surgeries existed for long enough to become part of their spiritual tradition. (You also see a giant fucking robot in FSR, and what is likely to be a space alien, though that one is played more as a joke than anything else.)
I always found the silver eye idea of person who have it, isn't capable of dying on it's own, but being able to be killed by the other guy, hilarious. Kinda loses it's value.
It's especially fucking funny when you realize that the legendary killer Kamui Uehara didn't actually manage to kill anyone, despite his targets being old men in their 70s LOL! Immortality didn't really do him any good.
Also, about these eyes being a jump cards, what about Peter jack-in into an eye in the beginning of F.S.R? Kusabi isn't an eye holder, is that part even related?
I thought about this a lot. Personally I think in that context, Sumio was just jacking-in to Tetsugoro's muppet suit lol.
Though it is possible that Tetsugoro also acquired a silver eye at some point within games, as I said by the time 25w rolls around they're not exactly scarce, it's just not generally available to the public, but Tetsugoro might have some connections we don't know about. He did manage to avoid prison despite murdering a bunch of policemen, and I sincerely doubt he was just acquitted in court LOL!
